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Post by Old Guest on Mar 15, 2005 12:18:57 GMT 1
I just read article about "corruption in EU", and some UK National Audiut Office's research papers over this subject (they are public, so everybody can check).
Interesting, they find that 5 percent of European Commisions budget (around 5 billion pounds) "disapears" because of corruption, each year. Also, in 2002. there was more then 10 000 fraud cases (around 700 mil. punds) in EU institutions .
There was even something about some resign of complete European Commision in latte 90's ... But I can't believe this, of course ... It is impossible ... Yet ...
If there is some good theory on how epidemy from Croatia speaded all over the EU, maybe I will start to believe it.
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Post by EMIZ on Mar 15, 2005 12:47:51 GMT 1
Every country is corrupt when you get to the top level; if that there is no doubt. Every president, prime minister orders men to be killed we know all this.
The difference is in countries like UK, Germany, and USA corruption is really for the elite; in Croatia corruption is in your face everyday. Small companies; middle size companies, even private home owners are asked for bribes; even the police ask for bribes when you're speeding; I can tell you that does not happen in the UK. In the aforementioned countries industries are not so controlled like here; I can tell you I know of at least 10 industries in Zagreb, were if you want to operate you need to pay a lot of money in a brown envelope to a man who then shares this money with politicians and the mafia.
Corruption is a problem in the EU, in Croatia it is still a way of life.
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Post by gavin on Mar 15, 2005 12:52:58 GMT 1
I'd be asking for bribes too if my wages were so low ! I know someone who works in the Ledo factory and gets 2.30euro an hour!! I wouldn't be surprised if he soon started to extort money from eaters of frozen products to ensure the quality !!
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Post by EMIZ on Mar 15, 2005 13:12:18 GMT 1
How will it ever end then? Purchasing director's (a senior post) are paid the minimum salary in many Croatian companies yet they are besieged by applications from high flyers. I know a guy who was once a purchasing director for one of the biggest state owned industries in Croatia; he was paid 3500kunas a month; but is a millionaire many times over; this can’t be right.
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 15, 2005 13:17:44 GMT 1
Every country is corrupt when you get to the top level; if that there is no doubt. Every president, prime minister orders men to be killed we know all this. The difference is in countries like UK, Germany, and USA corruption is really for the elite; in Croatia corruption is in your face everyday. Small companies; middle size companies, even private home owners are asked for bribes; even the police ask for bribes when you're speeding; I can tell you that does not happen in the UK. In the aforementioned countries industries are not so controlled like here; I can tell you I know of at least 10 industries in Zagreb, were if you want to operate you need to pay a lot of money in a brown envelope to a man who then shares this money with politicians and the mafia. Corruption is a problem in the EU, in Croatia it is still a way of life. I agree. I just realised that "corruption" is not invented by Croatians. So allow me to be dissapointed by my ignorance, and share it with others. Everything is "normal and known" even if it is not, and it shouldn't concern Croatia because Croats are "evil by defauilt". As much as I am ignorant - I am able to learn, so no need for repeating it.
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Post by gavin on Mar 15, 2005 13:29:23 GMT 1
i don't really know anything much about economics, so perhaps someone could enlighten me. Surely if wages went up, then so would the prices of goods and services to some degree, but since people have more money coming in, wouldn't they have more to spend also? and wouldn't it make the work force more happy and productive if they felt they were getting paid what they're worth? Perhaps they would no longer have the need to accept the bribes.
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 15, 2005 13:29:35 GMT 1
Anyway emiz, you attacked me when I said that Croatia's and EU's elite (polititians and biricracy) have corruption in common, and called me sot because of saying that.
Are you now claiming that corruption is acceptable in "top levels" of Croatian politics same as they are in EU. But I am problem for EU (never corrupted anybody, taked any illegal money, never avoided to pay 1 cent of taxes, never breaked any low, or did money loundry) ?
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Post by EMIZ on Mar 15, 2005 13:29:59 GMT 1
I never said corruption was invented in Croatia . I just say that there is too much corruption here, and it effects everyday people that's all.
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 15, 2005 13:39:12 GMT 1
I never said corruption was invented in Croatia . I just say that there is too much corruption here, and it effects everyday people that's all. Must be that I am sot. People learn each day ...
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croam
Full Member
Posts: 71
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Post by croam on Mar 15, 2005 15:45:29 GMT 1
next time someone other than a cop asks your for a bribe stick a gun in their mouth and ask them to repeat themselves. Its hard to talk with a gun in your mouth.
bwuhahahahahahaha.
Corruption is alive and well in croatia. its not a cultural thing, its political/economical. If the EU was in place, it would be alot harder to be corrupt. There would still be corruption, but it would be at higher levels. It wouldn't affect your everyday life. The way it is now ordinary people can make your life hell. We had a "tenant" stay in our apartment and take care of it for many years rent free, she just had to pay the utilities. One day she decided it was her apartment. My dad had to fly to Croatia twice a year for three years from the US, get a lawyer, then she sued him, before it was finally resolved. I told him it would have been cheaper to be nice to her, invite her to America and send her a first class ticket here. Then I'd take her charter fishing on my friends boat while she was here, show her the Atlantic Ocean. Tell her its like the Jadran. Then oops, she never showed up at the dock to go fishing that morning. Poor Visnja. She could have been shark food and it would have been alot cheaper, but my dad did it through the legal system which sounds like getting slowly gangraped by strangers. Joj. Anyone seen the film The Big Lebowski ? There's a great quote in there "Do you see what happens! Do you see what happens when you try to f**k a stranger in the ass!" Daaaaaaaaaamn
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Post by gavin on Mar 16, 2005 14:50:34 GMT 1
yesterday I met a friend of mine that i haven't seen since starting to post on this forum. he is the northen croatian sales manager for a large family owned company. His family has been in this business for generations and his father regularily goes on trade excursions with the croatian government. Basically this is a guy that i trust to know what goes on here. So, I asked him if sometimes when he's trying to sell, if the guy in charge of purchasing in the other company ever tries to get a 'cash bonus' from him in order to ensure the deal. He laughed ! and said it happens all the time. It's the balkan mentality he said ! It will probably never change ! So I guess you either get on the bus or get out of town. It's just the way things are done here. On another note, Emiz mentioned a company named after an ocean. I since found out that the family who runs that country has been trading in this region as far back as to when Dubrovnik was under Venetian control, probably one of the oldest trading families around, and most definately because of that the most connected people in business in this country. God knows what goes on behind their closed doors !! Believe it people, corruption is alive and well here and probably won't disapear for some time yet, if ever.
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Post by star on Mar 16, 2005 17:28:50 GMT 1
yesterday I met a friend of mine that i haven't seen since starting to post on this forum. he is the northen croatian sales manager for a large family owned company. His family has been in this business for generations and his father regularily goes on trade excursions with the croatian government. Basically this is a guy that i trust to know what goes on here. So, I asked him if sometimes when he's trying to sell, if the guy in charge of purchasing in the other company ever tries to get a 'cash bonus' from him in order to ensure the deal. He laughed ! and said it happens all the time. It's the balkan mentality he said ! It will probably never change ! So I guess you either get on the bus or get out of town. It's just the way things are done here. On another note, Emiz mentioned a company named after an ocean. I since found out that the family who runs that country has been trading in this region as far back as to when Dubrovnik was under Venetian control, probably one of the oldest trading families around, and most definately because of that the most connected people in business in this country. God knows what goes on behind their closed doors !! Believe it people, corruption is alive and well here and probably won't disapear for some time yet, if ever. Not until the last communists die off. You're a little off when you label it a "Balkan" mentality when in reality its a communist mentality. You find the exact same things in all the old Eastern block countries, with the exception maybe of the Czech republic.
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Post by FranchiseCroatia on Mar 16, 2005 18:39:16 GMT 1
How many of you are aware of a certain Croatian government and EBRD joint development bank here. Please be aware that the guy heading the bank has a nickname of "Mr. 10%". Now guess why? And this banks main aim is to develop business here!!!
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Gavin
New Member
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Post by Gavin on Mar 16, 2005 19:10:13 GMT 1
Not until the last communists die off. You're a little off when you label it a "Balkan" mentality when in reality its a communist mentality. You find the exact same things in all the old Eastern block countries, with the exception maybe of the Czech republic. His words, not mine. What's this bank you're talking about Mr. F
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Post by EMIZ on Mar 16, 2005 19:12:28 GMT 1
Mr 10% is a cool name though; he should release a rap record.
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