croam
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Posts: 71
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Post by croam on Apr 24, 2005 17:29:34 GMT 1
thanks for the link...
I spoke with two bartenders in a very upscale "bar" in Dubrovnik last summer...this guy was in his late 60's at least...he fought in the war...
he asked me why Clinton didn't do anything to prevent the war. "Didn't Clinton decide to to pay a 'formal visit' to the redion to 'check things out'... PARK 3-5 Stealth Bombers in strategic regions. He said Slobo wouldn't have done then." I thought about it and it makes alot of sense if you think about it. If Slobo then, in this 'scenario', hits one of the B52's or whatever...investigative bodies etc...this would start a war with...ding ding ding...the USA...which no one in their right mind would do. Maybe oversimplistic... but come one..we're talking the balkans..which get no respect if anyone even recognizes their existence...he could have parked a battleship in the harbor of dubrovnik to "monitor things" and that would have prevented the catastrophe in Dubrovnik. Goes to show you how much crap goes on behind closed doors. As far as backing the fascists in that war.... the USA did the same thing with the Afghan Rebels in Afghanistan...and the year before 911 the USA gave the Taliban 15 million dollars to combat "the drug war" and opium production over there and look at Afghani now... they produce more opium then ever before and Heroin is HUGE both in the US and Europe... Its easier to get high grade heroin in the US than grass... now you may not be a fan of either one but if your kids were going to be exposed to either and you had to choose ...i mean...come on..the answer is obvious... I'm slowly trying to recede back into my own world...i'm going to cut off the TV soon...maybe even the internet at my home... read the paper once a week at most if not once a month(not much 'real' news happens everyday anyways...i mean major things that impact me) and recede into my no self centered but self focused world. I lived in a remote area for several years and chose not to watch TV...this was before the internet as we know it... and didnt read the paper... it was a remote place and the "talk of the town" was other people's dirty laundry, prob the way it was in HR before internet and satellite. I was healthier than ever before in my life and happiest. Like it matters what we think. We're just wasting our lives talking about things we are helpless over...but it does feed the intellectual side of my personality. Croatians unplug your satellites and internet and LIVE life. Don't be fooled by the talking heads. They will be talking when we are long dead.
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croam
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Posts: 71
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Post by croam on Apr 24, 2005 17:30:25 GMT 1
correction above: "Why didn't clinton..."
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Post by Ghost Writer on Apr 24, 2005 20:23:04 GMT 1
Actually Irac,
Ghost Writer and downhill are the same. I accidentally put the wrong name in the wrong thread.
I am not STAR.
I wish I could write as intelligently and as eloquent as STAR but I don't.
Irac you sound like you don't know much about the middle east or Croatia. I think Star has shown you the facts.
By the way all my women friends in Croatia have equal jobs to their husbands or better, some have chosen to stay home with the kids. If you think staying home with the kids because their husbands chose that you are wrong. The women I know chose to stay home with the kids because they like it and like taking care of their home. They love cooking also. They do have educations to go out and work they just decided it was more important to stay home.
Irac you comparing Croatian women to Muslim women is ludicrious!!!!
Star you go girl. I have almost always liked what you have to say and you are probably one of the smartest people on here.
There are others like Irac that like to say how they are so called teachers and brag about their intelligence and who they know but I just don't see it. I tend not to get anything out of their posts but exxagerations and some stretched truths.
Star keep posting here. I like that you step up to the plate with facts!!!!
Croam, I have posted under downhill & ghost writer we have not always seen eye to eye but we have alot in common. We have somewhat same backgrounds and I do agree with alot of what you post. You just have a much younger view point on things.
I will be sticking to the name Ghost Writer. Thanks for the name Croam!
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croam
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Posts: 71
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Post by croam on Apr 24, 2005 20:54:46 GMT 1
no prob! croam was given to me by someone..i forget who already...supposed to be cro-am like a trans-am but the boards software erases the - i should just register for chrissakes..
i totally agree with you that women CHOOSE to stay at home. In fact I have never personally met, in Croatia or in the US women who were forced into being the housewife. This is an urban myth both there and over here. Otherwise they would be crawling out of the woodwork. If you choose to get knocked up before you have a job and an education then you can't complain and even these are few and far between. I agree that there can be no comparison between women's rights in croatia to muslim countries...your comparing apples and coconuts...not even close.
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Post by irac on Apr 24, 2005 21:51:38 GMT 1
ghost, or should it be said loveu2? Well, you really are not putting your point well and in fact are expressing yourself with great ignorance. by hiding your identity you are further supporting your own views and not adding anything. By being ignorant towards others is really not a strength, but then again, when you begin to travel as you get older, go to college/uni and visit Croatia, and hopefully the middle east if it's still there, then you will be hugely enlightened. And hey, I'm not hiding anything of my identity, you can check it out and all the facts figure. Don't be scared if everyone doesn't share your views/values/beliefs, you'll find as you go to third level education that you'll question yourself and when you explore other religions (I did the MA in a university with a seminary attached and Theology was a kinda neat side dish course) you'll see that the world is a big and interesting place.
Croam, I hope that was you who posted, but I'm not sure now with the id switchers. but regarding the "stay at home moms", well, you should know, having been to Croatia, that culture has a huge amount to play with it. Culture and religion are not one river, but streams that criss-cross. In 1920's-70's Ireland paedophilia, domestic abuse and the role of women was (I hate to say it) backwards. Croatia is moving out of this and a brave few are addressing the problem, including some outstanding priests and counsellors. Saudi is 500years away, in one sense, from Jordan, and it varies from country to country. Sure women can choose, but it has to be admitted that societal and cultural constraints often predicate that this is not always successful.
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Post by Ghost Writer on Apr 24, 2005 22:32:47 GMT 1
ghost, or should it be said loveu2? Well, you really are not putting your point well and in fact are expressing yourself with great ignorance. by hiding your identity you are further supporting your own views and not adding anything. By being ignorant towards others is really not a strength, but then again, when you begin to travel as you get older, go to college/uni and visit Croatia, and hopefully the middle east if it's still there, then you will be hugely enlightened. And hey, I'm not hiding anything of my identity, you can check it out and all the facts figure. Don't be scared if everyone doesn't share your views/values/beliefs, you'll find as you go to third level education that you'll question yourself and when you explore other religions (I did the MA in a university with a seminary attached and Theology was a kinda neat side dish course) you'll see that the world is a big and interesting place. Croam, I hope that was you who posted, but I'm not sure now with the id switchers. but regarding the "stay at home moms", well, you should know, having been to Croatia, that culture has a huge amount to play with it. Culture and religion are not one river, but streams that criss-cross. In 1920's-70's Ireland paedophilia, domestic abuse and the role of women was (I hate to say it) backwards. Croatia is moving out of this and a brave few are addressing the problem, including some outstanding priests and counsellors. Saudi is 500years away, in one sense, from Jordan, and it varies from country to country. Sure women can choose, but it has to be admitted that societal and cultural constraints often predicate that this is not always successful. I don't know about loveu2 but you and Emiz seem to be enthralled with him. What is this thing about I am hiding my identity. If I post here am I suppose to list my real name and maybe address, phone number and blood type. For gosh sake this is a open forum what difference does it make where the post comes from... be it a regular poster (member) or a one time poster....does it really matter? Does your opinion matter more because you are a member. Don't be silly. Now you say that I am ignorant by the facts that I posted. You have not posted any facts but just stated your personal opinion which to me means nothing. Back up your opinions and thought with facts. Star already proved you wrong about Croatian women, Croam also agree's about Croatian women. You seem to be the minority Irishman. Your thoughts about women having rights in the middle east was absurd. This is a quote from you " You're so right, they do tolerate, and when you visit one of these countries, like Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Bangladesh and then you'll know whereof you speak." You have obviously never been to these countries or if you have then you are blind to the horrendous conditions in which women live! This is from the website Womens human rights. This is just a snipet of what is going on in some countries. Governments both proclaimed their commitment to women’s rights and pursued policies that undermined them. At least fourteen countries that have sworn to combat sex discrimination by ratifying the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women continued to deny women full citizenship—Algeria, the Bahamas, Cyprus, Egypt, Fiji, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Malaysia, Maldives, Morocco, Republic of Korea, Turkey, and Tunisia—and reserved the right to do so when they ratified. Other governments openly challenged the notion that universal human rights extend to women. Taliban authorities in Afghanistan, for example, confined women to their homes, cut off their access to education and health care, and beat them on the streets. And I can find quite a bit more on the countries you named as being open to womens rights!
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Post by irac on Apr 24, 2005 23:02:08 GMT 1
ghost/downhill, whoever or whatever you are, you are not being pleasant and your poor attempts at dialogue are making your valid points a little less valid. Like I say, when you travel and experience, and remember, it's no shame that you've not been to whereof you speak, apart from holidays to the coast in Croatia, but if you wish to hide and not be a member, well, it's not hiding, but then when you throw silly insults or cast doubts on others shouldn't you then begin to realise your point is no longer moving? Please, you can check my background, passport, I have nothing to hide, I have finished two lots of 3rd level, travelled and lived abroad, so don't be intimidated, there's no need. You have lots of time to travel and experience, and when you round off your arguments you'll be a world beater. Until then, please, be more pleasant, more constructive, and cutting and pasting comments to suit some insult really isn't clever, especially when you are so feverishly searching for anythign and everything to back up your points.
So please, whoever you are now, be more pleasant, more constructive, and remember, propaganda appeals to all levels, one thing we learned in Uni was to question sources, both good and bad, and ask, why?
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Post by Ghost Writer on Apr 24, 2005 23:25:59 GMT 1
ghost, or should it be said loveu2? , when you begin to travel as you get older, go to college/uni and visit Croatia, and hopefully the middle east if it's still there, then you will be hugely enlightened. you'll find as you go to third level education that you'll question yourself and when you explore other religions (I did the MA in a university with a seminary attached and Theology was a kinda neat side dish course) you'll see that the world is a big and interesting place. Oooh and one other thing, there you go with the bragging again. Your supposed higher education....Get over yourself. Do you think you are better than others that don't have a degree? You have no idea what education level any of us have and it should not matter. Having a degree does not mean crap now a days, they say President Bush has a degree look what a he is! So you could compare yourself to him. I am not going to tell you if I have a degree or if I don't. I have respect for everyone with or without a degree. I can tell you one thing. I know people that did not have a chance to get a degree because of life's hardships but that does not make them any less intelligent than someone with a masters. I can bet my bottom dollar that if you ask Croam he will agree with me. I bet Croams Mom & Dad did not get a higher education, they probably came from Croatia to America and worked their asses off and now there son can go to college but if you ask Croam his Father is just as intelligent as any man with a degree! I know alot of people that were not fortunate to continue their education but they can hold their own with others that have degree's. Having a degree does not make you intelligent! You are born with it not given it with a piece of paper! To those who have had the time and fortunate circumstances to achieve a higher education good for you. There is nothing wrong with that achievment but don't ever hold your nose up to someone that does not have it. I also believe all men are equal whether you are a janitor or a doctor. In my world all people are special and important!
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Apr 24, 2005 23:32:30 GMT 1
Ghost Writer i think you are absolutely correct with the above post but my feelings are that Irac is simply patronising you, you should note he also questions your age.
I have a degree but i will tell anyone that some of my relatives are far brighter and more intelligent than me and i dont think Irac will actually disagree with your comments if he is honest?
Suppose we will find out soon enough!
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Post by irac on Apr 24, 2005 23:35:40 GMT 1
ghost,downhill, you began by questioning in an insulting manner my knowledge, I added that you don't need to feel you have to make your point by insulting others in a childish manner in order to make a pint that might stand on it's own anyway. This isn't a school playground, and you are running, ducking and diving and throwing out insults yet not being constructive. Again, I worked hard to gain knowledge and yet I try every day to learn more, so does everyone. You don't need to feel insecure, I look down on nobdy and never have, coming from the background I do I know that when you look down your nose at someone there's another looking down at you. Please, there is a rant and insult section on the site, use it to work off excess energy and then come back and make your points without being rude. Stick to one point, develop it and then try to balance your view. Nobody can deny that there are problems in all socities, and when you begin to travel widely you'll see it first hand, but with each one you learn. By involving yourself, being open and seeing with your eyes, not your mind and it's preconceived notions. Again, please, there's no need to be rude, childish or insulting, you can make points without resorting to ignorance and rudeness, somebody questoining you is someone wishing to add knowledge to their own and share theirs withyou. Progress is the key
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Post by irac on Apr 24, 2005 23:37:59 GMT 1
croserb, only the onesidedness and rudeness of comments are what need to be questioned, not once have I claimed that anywhere is sweetness and light, that's just not possible. And it's not patronising, it's just trying to not be rude in return and already this anon poster has admitted age and there is no baiting, just trying to be rational and admitting we all dneed dialogue and learning to get along.
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Apr 24, 2005 23:46:47 GMT 1
Irac, i have read enough of your posts to understand your considered viewpoints, but as with any form of written text it is difficult to interpret the tone of response.
I think this is perhaps the issue at point here.
Lets get back to the facts on this forum now, I am yet to be convinvced that true reconcilliation is possible, especially in Bosnia. I authored this thread and i am starting to harden my views that a new radical solution for Bosnia is required since it does not appear that the current solution is working.
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Post by star on Apr 24, 2005 23:58:48 GMT 1
Irac, i have read enough of your posts to understand your considered viewpoints, but as with any form of written text it is difficult to interpret the tone of response. I think this is perhaps the issue at point here. Lets get back to the facts on this forum now, I am yet to be convinvced that true reconcilliation is possible, especially in Bosnia. I authored this thread and i am starting to harden my views that a new radical solution for Bosnia is required since it does not appear that the current solution is working. Out of curiosity, what do you think would be a "radical" solution? No way the EU will agree to a partition because of the potential of creating and Islamic fundamentalist state in the middle of europe. I think the only way they could make a partition work is if there was a reconciliation between the muslims and croats and they formed a single state and the serbs another. But there's too much Saudi money working against that.
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Post by Ghost Writer on Apr 25, 2005 0:04:54 GMT 1
Ghost Writer i think you are absolutely correct with the above post but my feelings are that Irac is simply patronising you, you should note he also questions your age. I have a degree but i will tell anyone that some of my relatives are far brighter and more intelligent than me and i dont think Irac will actually disagree with your comments if he is honest? Suppose we will find out soon enough! I know CroSerb that was what he was doing but anyone knows by reading my posts that I am not a child. He continually patronizes everyone he does not agree with. Then boasts about his education. Like I said before I have shown proof with facts and he does not. Star also did the same thing and he does not like it when he is proved wrong. He has a chip on his shoulder. Be a man and face the fact that you were wrong about Muslim countries and womens rights! Irac, I never said I went on holiday in Croatia or anything like that. You have no clue if I live in Croatia, Australia, America or Arab Emigrates. Do you? So quit bringing up something that has no relavence in this conversation. Also you keep talking about how unpleasant my posts are and they are not valid.... Why don't you stick to the topic at hand and quit venturing into how my posts are pleasant or valid and come up with some facts to prove my point wrong. Instead you focus on where I am from and my travel experience which again you have no knowledge of. Do you? No you don't. The way you keep steering away from the subject by pointing out my imaginary flaws makes you sound more like a child in the playground... even a bit of a bullie. If you can't stick to the subject we are talking about without talking about me personally than don't bother to post. It is a waste of everyones time!
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croam
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Posts: 71
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Post by croam on Apr 25, 2005 0:14:05 GMT 1
the muslim croats or the catholic croats in bosnia??
GD it can get soo confusing!!
With a redneck accent: Catholic croats ain't never gonna live in no muslim state.
Ghost actually my parents were both professionals and because Europeans are more educated per capita the US needed profs from Europe to fill the gaps here, just like now...except now you have outsourcing...the new economic anti-christ. They wouldn't have been able to come from commie Yugo any other way thirty years ago because of the "cold war"...fear of the "commies" etc. and Yugo at that time was moving away from communism to som. Our schools have gone to here...I was lucky enough to go to good schools thanks to my hardworking parents. Ghost I also personally know alot of educated idiots and a few truly brilliant minds who are light years ahead of me intellectually with no degree...they are the exception...but they are out there...BUT I also think that interesting, smart and knowledgeable mindes are the exception amongst the educated as well. Your mind is like a garden...if you take care of it and tend to it, it will flourish. There are alot of people who will never reach their potential because they don't get the privelege to get a higher education or teach themselves or they were abused and stunted and so forth. The fact that your having this discussion instead of surfing for .,.,.,.,.,.,. speaks volumes. Seek and you shall find. Zivjeli!
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