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Post by cymraes on Oct 2, 2015 14:09:31 GMT 1
Hello all
We have been looking for a property in Istria with three different agents for a number of years with little success. We have finally found a plot and have decided to build. The agent who is dealing with the sale of the land has been extremely helpful in terms of defining the Croatian procedures and giving us a guide all the way up to the point where we would start to build. He has now sent a full breakdown of his costs as an initial project manager and in consultation with an Architect, Engineer and Builder (he has done much work with previously) has given us their costs for all the works/permits etc necessary to take us up to building stage. Can anyone suggest how we can validate all this information and these costs. Other than estimating a comparison with some of the elements here in the UK we are at a loss where to go from here! Thank you.
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Post by Ribaric on Oct 2, 2015 16:37:09 GMT 1
Hello cymraes and welcome.
First question, can you read/speak Croatian or have a native speaker "in your camp" as it were?
Without delving too deep, your agent must demonstrate the land you have chosen has clean ownership (exactly who is/are the owners), is fully registered in the various (3) land registers, has a sufficient portion of the land designated for building, there is no impediment to the structure you plan to erect, there are sufficient services to support a dwelling, there are no court decisions acting upon the ownership of the land, it has clear and unobstructed access to a public highway, there are no siblings/relatives of the current owner/s who have equal claim if the owners are inheritors (for whom there may well be intra-family agreements not in the public domain..... get the picture? You WILL need a lawyer and not one known to the agent is a good general rule.
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Post by cymraes on Oct 3, 2015 9:48:47 GMT 1
Hi
Thank you for responding. Unfortunately we don 't speak Croatian.
We have been discussing this land with the agent for about a year. He has done all the necessary investigations and established that the land has clear ownership, is registered and can be built upon. The only real issues remaining are services, he has had an estimate from the power company for a connection and come up with a plan for the water supply in the short term by including plans for building a cistern which will sustain the house in case we don't gat a water supply for a while. The land is on the edge of a village which has grown quite a bit so work on both the overall water and power supply will apparently be done at some time.
We really need help with the validation of the process being outlined and the associated costs before we proceed any further. I guess we really need to get a first hand account from someone who has been through the process themselves and/or an alternative cost breakdown from someone else who would undertake to provide the same service.
Thanks for your help
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Post by upthevilla on Oct 3, 2015 11:36:32 GMT 1
Unless you are here, i wouldn't advise buying land and building on it.
in the best case scenario you wont get ripped off and your house might be ready in 5 years.
just because you are on the edge of a village and they say they ...at some point...It really is ..At some point.. 5, 10, 20 years.
The safest bet is buying renovation projects.
Those that successfully build endure lots of stress especially if they are not here.
If you are here full time, know the right man, in the right job then paper work might be sped up, otherwise you just sit at the bottom of the pile until next year when you come across and he blows the cobwebs off your file and assures you again that he is just waiting on 1 thing. You go away happy , and another year goes by.
You really must be here
There are no statistics to show .
But i would estimate 1 in 20 is a success story
10 out of 20 are still ongoing
and 9 out of 20 have given up, and lost a fortune
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Post by Ribaric on Oct 3, 2015 19:09:23 GMT 1
I'm sorry to admit it but UTV (who knows Istria very well) and January are giving you the advice that I would. You know the business I'm in and we struggle with every step with even modest projects despite having a knowledgeable Croatian partner. Don't do this.
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Post by crojoe on Oct 3, 2015 23:08:46 GMT 1
I'm sorry to admit it but UTV (who knows Istria very well) and January are giving you the advice that I would. You know the business I'm in and we struggle with every step with even modest projects despite having a knowledgeable Croatian partner. Don't do this. Same here as others have commented ... go for already built, restore and that already has building plans in place. There are quite a few start and stop projects about with building plans (and many with none). Building from scratch in Croatia is problematic at the best of times ... big business even find it takes years and not always guaranteed. One major problem with "restore" would be clean ownership papers, so make sure a lawyer really looks into this before any cash transfers hands. Never exchange money till all legal paperwork is in place by the seller ... not even a deposit. No doubt cash will be requested as payment (a nice percentage so they can avoid the tax man ... quite a common practice), so make sure you do any transactions at a notary, signatures, stamps and whole above board process (just a signature on a paper will do very little if seller decides to keep your money... always go to the notary). Good luck! |
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Post by cymraes on Oct 5, 2015 13:52:08 GMT 1
Thank you for all your comments.
It's back to the drawing board then I guess! We have been looking for about 6 years, initially for something to renovate as we categorically didn't want a new house, time has moved on though and we haven't found anything and the agent has continued to impress upon us how problematic and costly renovation can be so we have come over to his way of thinking that a new build would be the best solution - until now. We are obviously doing something wrong if as you say there are lots of possibilities over there so can you please suggest a better way forward so that we can finally find something.
Many thanks again.
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Post by Carol on Oct 5, 2015 16:05:18 GMT 1
Why has it been so difficult to find a renovation project to suit your needs? Are all the clean properties in istria renovated now?
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Post by upthevilla on Oct 5, 2015 16:19:57 GMT 1
Why has it been so difficult to find a renovation project to suit your needs? Are all the clean properties in istria renovated now? Far from it.. They have gone up a litle bitfrom 10 - 15 years ago, but still plenty available |
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Post by upthevilla on Oct 5, 2015 16:21:31 GMT 1
What area of Istria ?
what is the purchase budget ?
What is your criteria ?
edge of village./ detached/ small garden/ nice view?
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Post by Ribaric on Oct 5, 2015 19:22:15 GMT 1
Cymraes, talk to upthevilla, you'll get the advice you need, even if you don't like it. By the way, I don't know him, never met him and have no involvement with him - but his reputation here is good.
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Post by cymraes on Oct 6, 2015 9:21:57 GMT 1
We are looking for something close to a village with enough land to add a pool and a have some garden as we have children. We would prefer not to be in the middle of other houses, views would be a bonus. We are looking for something that we could ultimately retire to. We have been concentrating our efforts mainly in the inland areas of Svetvincenat, Sveti lovrec, Zminj and down towards Pula. I'm not sure why it's proved so difficult, we thought we had found something about three years ago but when we consulted with an architect who works with the agent we're dealing with now he basically told us not to touch it so we were back to square one again!
We have seen a partly renovated house which has been on the market for quite some time (now owned by the bank I think) which is lovely but the work has been done without the correct permits and not particularly well apparently.
How do the agents work over there? Is it a free for all until one of them gets a sale? How do they know what's for sale unless the vendor contacts them - do they put their property up for sale with every agent? I've asked the question more than once and not managed to get a straight answer.
We would be very happy to deal with anybody who can help and most certainly UTV if that would be possible.
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Post by crojoe on Oct 6, 2015 10:17:10 GMT 1
We are looking for something close to a village with enough land to add a pool and a have some garden as we have children. We would prefer not to be in the middle of other houses, views would be a bonus. We are looking for something that we could ultimately retire to. We have been concentrating our efforts mainly in the inland areas of Svetvincenat, Sveti lovrec, Zminj and down towards Pula. I'm not sure why it's proved so difficult, we thought we had found something about three years ago but when we consulted with an architect who works with the agent we're dealing with now he basically told us not to touch it so we were back to square one again! We have seen a partly renovated house which has been on the market for quite some time (now owned by the bank I think) which is lovely but the work has been done without the correct permits and not particularly well apparently. How do the agents work over there? Is it a free for all until one of them gets a sale? How do they know what's for sale unless the vendor contacts them - do they put their property up for sale with every agent? I've asked the question more than once and not managed to get a straight answer. We would be very happy to deal with anybody who can help and most certainly UTV if that would be possible. Also if you find a built home make sure you get it checked out structurally. It was very common in Croatia that people build their own homes (with mates and family members) and then they just plaster over the structural deformities. Now there are more regulations in place, but before there was a lot of "self-build". On my street I have seen rickety old brick buildings get a coat of plaster and now look new and modern, so check under the plaster. Proper plumbing and electrics can also be a major issue. |
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Post by Carol on Oct 6, 2015 13:22:04 GMT 1
How do estate agents operate?
The seller decides that they want to sell and he contacts one or many estate agents. They each get him to sign a mediation contract, almost always on a no-sale, no fee basis.
Agents are not permitted to demand sole-agency status, but some manipulate the sellers into giving it to them anyway.
Then the agencies co-operate with each other. They all know one another and they talk all the time. This has the effect of making the market self-regulate itself. Buyers and sellers come and go (its not like a supermarket where you expect the buyer back again next week), but cheat another agent and everyone will get to know about it.
We make deals with one another. The most typical one is: I have this property on my books, would you like to try to sell it too? If you find a buyer, then you get your fee from the buyer and I will get mine from the seller.
Then everyone decides which properties to spend their valuable advertising budgets. e.g. portals might limit you to 50 properties, you'd prefer to advertise the ones that you'll get a sellers's fee for, but it depends on how realistically you think you'll find a buyer on this portal. There is only ever one ultimate buyer for each property, so if another 5 agencies are also trying to sell this property on the same portal, it comes down to a game of chance as to which agent the potential buyer will contact.
Some agencies do steal properties. I will not name names, but it does happen. They just go to another agencies website, take the property details, steal the photos and knock €10k off the price and then put it on their own site. Its illegal, but it does happen, and those agencies don't have many friends amongst the other agencies (or happy buyers as they tend to show the same business ethics to everyone they deal with).
Agencies also contact each other when a buyer gets in touch. They say to each other that they have a German/ Russian/ Swedish/ British man who wants x, y and z and what do you have that is suitable? Often potential buyers contact lots of agencies, so as an agent you have to be careful not to waste your time detailing properties to your colleague for someone who is separately in contact with you.
The rule (by law) is that the agent who introduces the buyer and seller - give each other's name by email, phone or in person - is the one to whom the fee is legally due.
Keeping property details up to date on your website is an ongoing problem. Asking prices change, the property gets sold or withdrawn from the market and the sellers don't always bother to update the agencies. We have about 100 properties at any time and it would take forever if we kept in constant contact to check with the sellers whether anything has changed - because invariably they all want a state of the market conversation or a long conversation about how their property is so much better decorated than someone else's and so shouldn't they charge more?
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Post by upthevilla on Oct 6, 2015 14:03:34 GMT 1
Over the next few weeks i will look at what is available and let you know.
i know the areas well.
Please let me know the name of the agency that you were using either here or by PM.
As carol rightly says most of agencies work closely together and i don't want to be stepping on somebody else's toes
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