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Post by happy on Dec 8, 2007 21:50:58 GMT 1
I was thinking of how Croats treat Bosnians. I know that they are the same race, but racism is the closest word I know. I've personally witnessed some horrible things for which the man concerned should be locked up either in jail or a mental assylum, but instead the police turn a blind eye - even when he's pointing a rifle at people and saying he'll use it to shoot bosnians. There are bad and mad people in every country. Its how you deal with them that counts. saying "well he's entitled.. after all he is croatian and they are incomers" is not acceptable IMO. RACISM is probably not the right word. Perhaps the word "TRIBAL" is closer ? "TRIBALISM" to be more precise
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Post by pocketvenus on Dec 8, 2007 22:50:14 GMT 1
One thing that really shocked me was whilst watching the World Cup final last year a woman in her late 30s who is studying for a doctorate asked "if there were any French people in the French team"!!
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Post by pocketvenus on Dec 8, 2007 22:53:31 GMT 1
I was thinking of how Croats treat Bosnians. I know that they are the same race, but racism is the closest word I know. I've personally witnessed some horrible things for which the man concerned should be locked up either in jail or a mental assylum, but instead the police turn a blind eye - even when he's pointing a rifle at people and saying he'll use it to shoot bosnians. There are bad and mad people in every country. Its how you deal with them that counts. saying "well he's entitled.. after all he is croatian and they are incomers" is not acceptable IMO. The Dalmatian police also refused to take a statement from a Brit attacked last year in Split! His crime - alllegedly looking at some local's girlfriend! The local defended his honour by saying he was a surgeon and that his girlfriend was some bimbo model!!
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Post by enigma on Dec 9, 2007 0:11:57 GMT 1
Hi everybody! What are we talking about: racism or Croatian language? Carol, why are you so angry and bitter? This country does not tolerate racism ,it's the individuals who are racists just like in the rest of the world. Look at the word "s.ead", for example. We do not have the Croatian equivalent fo it, it comes from English and we use it in its original form. Don't tell me there are no racists in UK! They can be found everywhere. I wonder if you have made any Croatian friends since (as I can see) you've been living here for two years? You are so terribly wrong about me - I definitely don't use any other name or PSEUDONYM (not psyeudonym as you've written). I,m just Enigma. Happy, I never said that Croatian children are more clever, just more talented and that's not the same. And I just saw the results of a research in a language magazine! Statistics is sometimes very strange. Anyway, I do agree with some of you that we are a small nation and we just need to learn languages to be able to communicate with the rest of the world. I've always loved English language and culture, tradition etc. and I'm pretty much hurt to see so much prejudice and even hatred vs your host country. My general point is: If a person comes to live to a foreign country, he/she should respect the tradition, culture and the language, trying to adapt , not spit on everything that is different from your own culture. It is a matter of being polite and try to learn the language to be able to communicate with the locals in their native language .It might enable you to understand some things better. Last but not least - it was not my intention to offend anybody or to say that Croatians are the cleverest people in the world. On the contrary, I think people are the same everywhere. We're just humans. Good night, sleep well and sweet dreams (LAKU NOÆ, LIJEPO SPAVAJTE I SLATKO SANJAJTE)
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Post by Slatkica on Dec 9, 2007 1:28:14 GMT 1
One thing that really shocked me was whilst watching the World Cup final last year a woman in her late 30s who is studying for a doctorate asked "if there were any French people in the French team"!! HAHA true.
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Post by gmh on Dec 9, 2007 9:38:56 GMT 1
None of the Croatians I know are tolerant of racism. It would be interesting to know how many of these Croatians you know have ever had any direct personal dealing with a non Caucasian or non Christian person in their lifetime. All of them, and some even have freinds with different coloured skin and non christian religion. Shock horror !! Pocket venus, you must of been hanging around the wrong people because I'm very open about being athiest and haven't had a problem with anyone, including my wifes Aunts(deeply religious). Why did Carol turn this discussion from language to Racism ? Still looking for an answer to that one.
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Post by happy on Dec 9, 2007 11:00:26 GMT 1
[quote author=gav board=mbarea thread=1087808322 post=1197189536
[/quote]
All of them, and some even have freinds with different coloured skin and non christian religion. Shock horror !!
.[/quote]
Indeed
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Post by Carol on Dec 9, 2007 12:36:05 GMT 1
the country does tolerate racism. If they did not tolerate it, then the policeman who made that comment would not have a job by the end of that day. Moreover I never here anyone object when a racist (or homophobic) remark is made. Why am i so bitter? I'm not, but I don't like to observe one truth and then read a hugely distorted version typically written by people who couldn't know the raelity as they don't live here.
As to the language.. its a difficult language to learn even if there were good teachers and materials. Brits are generally not good at languages. But to be honest, i've heard Croats argue over what is part/ not part fo their language for so long, that I don't think there really is a definitive answer to what is the Croatian language. If I am right then it does render the first 20 pages of this thread a bit of a waste of time.
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Post by Carol on Dec 9, 2007 12:40:40 GMT 1
Owl I just read you croat children ARE better quote. what an ignorant thing to say.
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Post by justapixel on Dec 9, 2007 13:14:30 GMT 1
the country does tolerate racism. If they did not tolerate it, then the policeman who made that comment would not have a job by the end of that day. Moreover I never here anyone object when a racist (or homophobic) remark is made. Why am i so bitter? I'm not, but I don't like to observe one truth and then read a hugely distorted version typically written by people who couldn't know the raelity as they don't live here. The rules of the game are very different and it's quite naive comparing Croatia to western EU countries. Firstly, there is no political correctness at all, and that's something that I'm actually happy about cause I can't stand PC. But that also means people are free to say whatever they want no matter if it offends someone. Also, don't expect that anyone ever will be fired from police or any government service for any reason. Don't expect racism to be handled any soon simply because it's far away from a glaring problem - we have basically zero non Caucasians and zero interracial problems. A few (true) Africans and Arabs who live here have no problems except for puzzling looks of people unused to their presence. As for homophobic issues, well, we do have a significant number of gays, and their existence actually was hushed up in previous regime. They also don't fit common mainstream patriarchal-catholic-Croat view so protecting gay rights is something that will need a lot of effort to be successfully resolved. And that's something that government itself is the last one to resolve because they are indeed much more primitive and backward than Croatian people (don't tell me government represents people and society, there's actually negative selection at work there - they represent rock bottom). As to the language.. its a difficult language to learn even if there were good teachers and materials. Brits are generally not good at languages. But to be honest, i've heard Croats argue over what is part/ not part fo their language for so long, that I don't think there really is a definitive answer to what is the Croatian language. If I am right then it does render the first 20 pages of this thread a bit of a waste of time. Actually, Brits are relatively average in languages, French and Italians having strong accents are the worst, Russians also tend to retain their accent. Central Europeans, including Croatians, having much lighter accents adapt faster. Then again, there are regional preferences - northern Croatians share intonation and substantial fraction of vocabulary with Germans so they learn German easily, while it comes naturally for the people on coast to speak Italian. In many respect Italian grammar is eerily similar to Croatian, but is much simpler. As for English, yes, the answer is in TV. Luckily we don't have voice overs like Germans or Italians and that helps a lot. That's another reason why small nations excel in languages. We also don't have to use "Vuk spelling" which cripples Serbs and Bosnians a lot. I have no intention of going deeper into arguments about what is Croatian language and what constitutes it, but I'd only like to point out that Croatian language has sound roots and has been defined and formalized for a while. Only nationalistic tendencies and deserbization of 90's has brought upon it a host of reforms, new grammars and other mostly unsuccessful measures which managed only to destabilize it and make common people start wondering what Croatian language actually is. They've turned choice of grammar into a political question. .
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Post by pocketvenus on Dec 9, 2007 14:48:07 GMT 1
the country does tolerate racism. If they did not tolerate it, then the policeman who made that comment would not have a job by the end of that day. Moreover I never here anyone object when a racist (or homophobic) remark is made. Why am i so bitter? I'm not, but I don't like to observe one truth and then read a hugely distorted version typically written by people who couldn't know the raelity as they don't live here. The rules of the game are very different and it's quite naive comparing Croatia to western EU countries. Firstly, there is no political correctness at all, and that's something that I'm actually happy about cause I can't stand PC. But that also means people are free to say whatever they want no matter if it offends someone. Also, don't expect that anyone ever will be fired from police or any government service for any reason. Don't expect racism to be handled any soon simply because it's far away from a glaring problem - we have basically zero non Caucasians and zero interracial problems. A few (true) Africans and Arabs who live here have no problems except for puzzling looks of people unused to their presence. As for homophobic issues, well, we do have a significant number of gays, and their existence actually was hushed up in previous regime. They also don't fit common mainstream patriarchal-catholic-Croat view so protecting gay rights is something that will need a lot of effort to be successfully resolved. And that's something that government itself is the last one to resolve because they are indeed much more primitive and backward than Croatian people (don't tell me government represents people and society, there's actually negative selection at work there - they represent rock bottom). As to the language.. its a difficult language to learn even if there were good teachers and materials. Brits are generally not good at languages. But to be honest, i've heard Croats argue over what is part/ not part fo their language for so long, that I don't think there really is a definitive answer to what is the Croatian language. If I am right then it does render the first 20 pages of this thread a bit of a waste of time. Actually, Brits are relatively average in languages, French and Italians having strong accents are the worst, Russians also tend to retain their accent. Central Europeans, including Croatians, having much lighter accents adapt faster. Then again, there are regional preferences - northern Croatians share intonation and substantial fraction of vocabulary with Germans so they learn German easily, while it comes naturally for the people on coast to speak Italian. In many respect Italian grammar is eerily similar to Croatian, but is much simpler. As for English, yes, the answer is in TV. Luckily we don't have voice overs like Germans or Italians and that helps a lot. That's another reason why small nations excel in languages. We also don't have to use "Vuk spelling" which cripples Serbs and Bosnians a lot. I have no intention of going deeper into arguments about what is Croatian language and what constitutes it, but I'd only like to point out that Croatian language has sound roots and has been defined and formalized for a while. Only nationalistic tendencies and deserbization of 90's has brought upon it a host of reforms, new grammars and other mostly unsuccessful measures which managed only to destabilize it and make common people start wondering what Croatian language actually is. They've turned choice of grammar into a political question. . You mind not be so anti-PC if you very female, short AND atheist. I was rejected for taking part in a TV show because they apparently couldn't find any 30-something in Zagreb as short as me. Rubbish. It is a sad state of affairs when record shops don't stock CDs by singers like Zeljko Joksimovic just because he is a Serb. I am not in favour of PC language, just in favour of respect, regardless of gender, race, nationality, religion or height! And Croats are not so great at English, as no matter how many times they're told they can't get rid of their septic tank twang!!!
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Post by justapixel on Dec 9, 2007 15:20:14 GMT 1
You mind not be so anti-PC if you very female, short AND atheist. I was rejected for taking part in a TV show because they apparently couldn't find any 30-something in Zagreb as short as me. Rubbish. It is a sad state of affairs when record shops don't stock CDs by singers like Zeljko Joksimovic just because he is a Serb. I am not in favour of PC language, just in favour of respect, regardless of gender, race, nationality, religion or height! Aren't you a bit too much frustrated. I don't know what you came upon, but it made a great impression on you. Respect is something that each person has to earn by himself. Are you sure you want to be respected by people you don't respect? Your public sensibility and PC are overprotective and a westerner frequently looks like a spoiled brat when teleported into our surroundings. And Croats are not so great at English, as no matter how many times they're told they can't get rid of their septic tank twang!!! Septic tank twang? I have no idea what's that... I didn't say Croats are exceptionally great, only better than surrounding nations. It comes as natural that a Dutch, Swede or even ze German will speak better English than someone from Slavic countries. .
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Post by Slatkica on Dec 9, 2007 21:00:10 GMT 1
You mind not be so anti-PC if you very female, short AND atheist. I was rejected for taking part in a TV show because they apparently couldn't find any 30-something in Zagreb as short as me. Rubbish. It is a sad state of affairs when record shops don't stock CDs by singers like Zeljko Joksimovic just because he is a Serb. I am not in favour of PC language, just in favour of respect, regardless of gender, race, nationality, religion or height! Aren't you a bit too much frustrated. I don't know what you came upon, but it made a great impression on you. Respect is something that each person has to earn by himself. Are you sure you want to be respected by people you don't respect? Your public sensibility and PC are overprotective and a westerner frequently looks like a spoiled brat when teleported into our surroundings. And Croats are not so great at English, as no matter how many times they're told they can't get rid of their septic tank twang!!! Septic tank twang? I have no idea what's that... I didn't say Croats are exceptionally great, only better than surrounding nations. It comes as natural that a Dutch, Swede or even ze German will speak better English than someone from Slavic countries. . "Septic tank twang." i.e using American words and phrases.
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Post by gmh on Dec 9, 2007 21:21:53 GMT 1
Pocketvenus, you're one to talk about peoples accents. My wife speaks English with a less annoying accent than yours and she's never even lived in an English speaking country.
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Post by capio on Dec 9, 2007 21:41:20 GMT 1
Pocketvenus, you're one to talk about peoples accents. My wife speaks English with a less annoying accent than yours and she's never even lived in an English speaking country. Why must you always be so personal? BTW your accent is far more annoying than Pockets.
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