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Post by irac on Jul 18, 2007 8:00:27 GMT 1
A lovely little titillation in Slobodna this morning, coupled with the usual round up of prices. "Russians" are paying 5,000 per m2 in Znjan and loving it. And these folks aren't even asking for the price, just opening the suitcase and counting out the wads.
Now, what wasn't put in was a story (which appeared in Jutarnji last Tuesday) about the estate agents who were delighted to sell apartments when presented with bank drafts, and having given back the change (some 1.21million euros) were later detained by police as the drafts were false and a nice scam caught PZB badly, the "Russians" had an insider in the bank who is also under arrest, and it turns out the "Russians" were in fact likely lads from Zagreb who left the country in 1993 and are part of a German based crew.
Anyone seen a headline of how many foreigners own property here yet?
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Post by darcy on Jul 18, 2007 13:07:44 GMT 1
Nobody can be certain. I read some articles that are mentioning "between 40K and 60K properties owned by foreigners".
When you read CRO sources, nobody says where data are coming from and what are the properties owned by foreigners - are they privately owned, owned by companies solely owned by a foreign entity? (Well, there is no Croatian bank to start with, all banks in Croatia are owned by the foreign entities.) Also, who is a foreigner? There is a fair number of properties owned by the citizens of the former Yugoslav states. Are they included or they are not really “foreigners”?
I am a foreigner (or at least I think I am), but I am not sure I am in this group of foreigners, as I did not ask for a permit to buy - I have just bought it and registered in the Land Office - no questions asked. Probably I was supposed to pay for the favour, but I did not so ... ops - sorry.
I always have a problem with Croats and Croatians - they so easily make up things and they so easy say something without any, but any foundations. And the worse, they think that is OK!
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Post by Sasha on Jul 18, 2007 15:40:37 GMT 1
I always have a problem with Croats and Croatians - they so easily make up things and they so easy say something without any, but any foundations. And the worse, they think that is OK! If you have so many problems, go and live somewhere else.
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Post by irac on Jul 18, 2007 15:51:33 GMT 1
Stop the hate sasha, can't you post without attack? It's a free world and folks can give opinions, regardless of race, religion and free from bigots who cling to stupidity and ignorance as anything better means change. I always have a problem with Croats and Croatians - they so easily make up things and they so easy say something without any, but any foundations. And the worse, they think that is OK! If you have so many problems, go and live somewhere else.
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Post by irac on Jul 18, 2007 15:55:01 GMT 1
If it's those figures, then it's double on last years 20-30 (courtesy of 24, Slobodna, Vjesnik and Jutarnji). It is hard to believe anything that's written in newspapers due to the monopoly, all but one daily owned by EPH and the best-selling locals all under the same umbrella. One thing is for sure is that sales have slowed, which coud be good for local kids looking to buy, not many, but I'm sure some will be more into it. Interesting how you bought, if only they were all so easy! Nobody can be certain. I read some articles that are mentioning "between 40K and 60K properties owned by foreigners". When you read CRO sources, nobody says where data are coming from and what are the properties owned by foreigners - are they privately owned, owned by companies solely owned by a foreign entity? (Well, there is no Croatian bank to start with, all banks in Croatia are owned by the foreign entities.) Also, who is a foreigner? There is a fair number of properties owned by the citizens of the former Yugoslav states. Are they included or they are not really “foreigners”? I am a foreigner (or at least I think I am), but I am not sure I am in this group of foreigners, as I did not ask for a permit to buy - I have just bought it and registered in the Land Office - no questions asked. Probably I was supposed to pay for the favour, but I did not so ... ops - sorry. I always have a problem with Croats and Croatians - they so easily make up things and they so easy say something without any, but any foundations. And the worse, they think that is OK!
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Post by darcy on Jul 18, 2007 16:26:52 GMT 1
My point is that CRO sources are not reliable, whatever they publish in the media. Is tourism up or down - you cannot trust, no data about the property sales, no data about the property prices. All you are left with are rumours.
No, Sasha, I do not live in CRO, when I have some spare time I just go there for some sailing, diving and fishing and I like it.
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Post by irac on Jul 18, 2007 16:40:54 GMT 1
Stats are usually not entirely reliable, too dependent on software and can be manipulated or "interpreted" to suit an end. In some ways it's better not to have concrete figures, it would be too shocking and depressing, but also because behind the scenes there is work being done to rectify the situation, so 2-3 years down the line it'll be much much improved. The brains and ability are there, it's just getting through the psyche and red tape.
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Post by Carol on Jul 18, 2007 21:06:07 GMT 1
"the brains and ability are there"
Really? Not being sarcastic but how?? How does anyone gain experience to do things professionally if they have been trained in Croatia and only worked here?
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Post by Sasha on Jul 18, 2007 22:29:11 GMT 1
My point is that CRO sources are not reliable, whatever they publish in the media. Is tourism up or down - you cannot trust, no data about the property sales, no data about the property prices. All you are left with are rumours. Darcy, please, please how can you say this? Croatia is at the EU door, so the figures must be reliable. What date about the property sales or property prices? You can find them, and they are pretty reliable.
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Post by rijekafan on Jul 19, 2007 0:00:32 GMT 1
If you have so many problems, go and live somewhere else.[/quote][/quote]
Sasha, you would have made a good Titoist:) C'mon mate, we all know the Cro stats are not worth the paper they are printed on. Please tell me what stats are reliable? I cannot think of any.
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Post by zorro on Jul 19, 2007 7:22:32 GMT 1
"the brains and ability are there" Really? Not being sarcastic but how?? How does anyone gain experience to do things professionally if they have been trained in Croatia and only worked here? Wow Carol, that's a bit harsh from you!!! But true none the less.
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Post by irac on Jul 19, 2007 7:56:06 GMT 1
Carol, I know it's easy to write off the local attitude towards work, but I should clarify it. There are enough intelligent, and capable people here, I would almost say especially amongst the young. They want to progress and are shaking off the idiotic hang ups of previous generations (irrational ethnic hatred, commie feelings) and just see the future as something they want to be part of. However the education system here is poor, qualifications have a price tag (literally) and the old commie elite still rule and are flogging off state assets to each other. It will take, I believe, belief from outside and investment in youth here to make things happen. There is the will, all they need is the way. Rijekafan, tito liked foreigners, especially their money and investment! Only idiots without a stake int he country's future wish to ethnic cleanse again! "the brains and ability are there" Really? Not being sarcastic but how?? How does anyone gain experience to do things professionally if they have been trained in Croatia and only worked here?
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Post by darcy on Jul 19, 2007 9:12:04 GMT 1
My point is that CRO sources are not reliable, whatever they publish in the media. Is tourism up or down - you cannot trust, no data about the property sales, no data about the property prices. All you are left with are rumours. Darcy, please, please how can you say this? Croatia is at the EU door, so the figures must be reliable. What date about the property sales or property prices? You can find them, and they are pretty reliable. OK, Sasha, please tell me any source of data in CRO (excluding data publish by the Reserve Bank, which looks to me as the only decent institution). Irac asked how many properties in Croatia are owned by foreigners. Do you have a clue? You can read in the papers, but they do not say any detail about the source nor they say how the data had been collected, what means they are making it up or the data are worthless. The same applies to the tourist numbers, price of the sq. meter and everything else. Do you know where to find the data? Croatia is closing the gap with the EU, but the process is pushed only by the nervous foreign investors (banking industry mostly). Please understand that in 1996 when I was working in CRO, CRO had a far better overall economic profile then the Baltics, Poland, Romania and Bulgaria, and was pretty even with Hungary. Now, CRO fellow countries are Albania and Macedonia and everything else is a pure propaganda.
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Post by Carol on Jul 19, 2007 9:48:27 GMT 1
I know there are intelligent people here (there are intelligent people born everywhere). I know there is a work ethic among many of the yu ger people, especially away from the coast. However i just can't see how people can reach a level of professional competance when they don't get the requisite training, and i don't just mean what is taught at university. in fact I am thinking of what happens when they enter the workplace after graduation. Who is there to teach them the professional way to behave and to do their work?
I worked in the City after graduation. I now know a lot more than I did upon graduation because I picked it up from working in a professional environment. Both in terms of how to conduct myself in a professional manner and also in gaining the up to date technical knowledge to understand the products and the market. How could someone who graduates with a maths degree in croatia do the same?
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Post by Ribaric on Jul 19, 2007 10:39:20 GMT 1
Nail, hit, hammer and head Carol. My limited contact with post-grads is that they have excellent technical and theoretic knowledge but the world of commerce and real-life business is not generally available to them. I detect an exaggeration of the value of degrees among the few I know, this is coupled with a poor appreciation of bottom-line business. Too much process, not enough goal driven activity. Your point about exposure had not occured to me but I'm sure you've got it right.
The answer? Maybe to work abroad and bring home the business mentality learnt there.
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