|
Post by Carol on Aug 17, 2007 8:12:55 GMT 1
the contract needs to be in croatian but what's wrong with having a written translation? We put the english and croatian versions on the same page (cro in the left, english in the right column) and then everyone knows what they are signing up to.
The problem for agents is people refusing to pay at the end, or just disappearing. No sale, no fee does seem like a reasonable proposition though and I think most agents operate it (except those who march their client to the bank to collect theur fess after leaving the notary's office for the pre-contract signing!). If that happens, then you just know you will never see that money again!
|
|
|
Post by capio on Aug 17, 2007 10:31:11 GMT 1
Carol the way you do it is obviously the way to go, any contracts I signed always had a notarized English version translated by a court translator, but I often found the translation a little cryptic.
Especially when legal terms were used, I certainly had disagreements over discrepancies of translations, but I think something as cut and dry if an agent should take money or not, should be easy to do.
I was just explaining to cro that then cannot simply have an English contract as the court will not recognise it. I don't believe they should owe the agent a penny, if money is owed to the agent it should come from the seller as it is they that pulled out. However that would be too easy for Croatia.
|
|
|
Post by darcy on Aug 17, 2007 10:51:26 GMT 1
Capio is right, as any dispute will be subject to the Croatian law and Croatian court, only Croatian version of the contract is legally binding. You can translate it in English if you want. I learned most of my Croatian by reviewing contracts in Croatian.
|
|
|
Post by Carol on Aug 17, 2007 12:19:05 GMT 1
cryptic translations! This is one I got yesterday: "The contracting parties undertake agreeably the duty of entering of the Main Agreement on sales of property signed as the building plot ...". Usually I phone them and say do you mean that or do you really mean... and then we fix it. Its as though there was one translated contract and all the others copy the terminology from it (e.g. "in written" instead of "in writing" is used everywhere)
|
|
|
Post by Carol on Aug 17, 2007 12:23:33 GMT 1
I agree that if anyone should pay it should be the seller, but as you say this is Croatia. Most usually the agent doesn't get anything if the sale fails even if the seller or buyer were 100% to blame. But then we do get well paid when a sale goes through... (if we can get hold of our suddenly elusive clients of course!)
|
|
|
Post by capio on Aug 17, 2007 13:30:25 GMT 1
Yup, that sounds familiar, I understood all the words but the sentence made no sense but court translators didn't like to be told that.
The very nature of being an agent means you should only get paid if the sales goes through, although if somebody is messing around, I think there should be penalties for them.
|
|
|
Post by californiacro on Aug 17, 2007 17:44:17 GMT 1
Capio is right, as any dispute will be subject to the Croatian law and Croatian court, only Croatian version of the contract is legally binding. You can translate it in English if you want. I learned most of my Croatian by reviewing contracts in Croatian. I am just curious... I can't remember some stuff from my law books and contract books and they are still packed away since my move in May. Say 2 people from Britian that reside in Croatia, write a contract up in English and have it notarized and the whole bit. You are saying that contract is not binding and is invalid because of the language, this sounds like nonsense to me. So what happens when 2 people make a verbal contract in English who reside in Croatia....hahaha is that invalid tooo! ### Carol did you ever do a contract completely in English with clients who are both Brits in Croatia?
|
|
|
Post by capio on Aug 17, 2007 19:10:58 GMT 1
Verbal contract in Croatia?
Just accept you were wrong and move on please.
You can't be expected to keep a handle on everything via the internet from 10.000 miles away.
|
|
|
Post by Carol on Aug 17, 2007 20:27:55 GMT 1
no when we had two english clients they got the bi-lingual contract. It makes sense to be able to express it in any language you please but if it comes to court in Croatia, then the judge would need it in Croatian and it just creates work for the lawyers to argue over who has the truest translation.
|
|
|
Post by californiacro on Aug 17, 2007 23:53:50 GMT 1
no when we had two english clients they got the bi-lingual contract. It makes sense to be able to express it in any language you please but if it comes to court in Croatia, then the judge would need it in Croatian and it just creates work for the lawyers to argue over who has the truest translation. Thanks Carol..... So it would be valid but the problem would be who has the truest translation?? I would think any contract is a contract no matter what the language if all parties agree to the language and terms. I will have to look this up when I get my books out of storage. Have a good weekend!
|
|
|
Post by capio on Aug 18, 2007 1:09:29 GMT 1
no when we had two english clients they got the bi-lingual contract. It makes sense to be able to express it in any language you please but if it comes to court in Croatia, then the judge would need it in Croatian and it just creates work for the lawyers to argue over who has the truest translation. Thanks Carol..... So it would be valid but the problem would be who has the truest translation?? I would think any contract is a contract no matter what the language if all parties agree to the language and terms. I will have to look this up when I get my books out of storage. Have a good weekend! This is inaccurate the courts will only accept the Croatian version, I assure you, I have been in the court and they wont even look at the English version.
|
|
|
Post by irac on Aug 18, 2007 6:19:45 GMT 1
I don't think US law books would count for much here, god even Croatian lawbooks don't cuont for much! Verbal contracts aren't worth the paper they're writen on here and it's illegal and totally non-binding to have non-Croatian language contracts here. The law states that even notarised translatoins can be disputed as they are far too often "direct" translations without relation to context - I'm feeling very in the know here as myself and our lawyer are prepping a legal case for Monday and we had a 6am start! Yaay! I'm asking him as I type. No, it's nonsense to make purely non-Croatian contracts for Croatian business or property, you have almost 0% in court, and even with a translation (side by side as Carol excellently states) differences in the two versions put the ball firmly in the local side of the court. Welcome to Croatia! 1.2 million pending CIVIL cases, over 200,000 of those property related - good luck in court, in 2013, when we're part of Comecon! Capio is right, as any dispute will be subject to the Croatian law and Croatian court, only Croatian version of the contract is legally binding. You can translate it in English if you want. I learned most of my Croatian by reviewing contracts in Croatian. I am just curious... I can't remember some stuff from my law books and contract books and they are still packed away since my move in May. Say 2 people from Britian that reside in Croatia, write a contract up in English and have it notarized and the whole bit. You are saying that contract is not binding and is invalid because of the language, this sounds like nonsense to me. So what happens when 2 people make a verbal contract in English who reside in Croatia....hahaha is that invalid tooo! ### Carol did you ever do a contract completely in English with clients who are both Brits in Croatia?
|
|
|
Post by californiacro on Aug 18, 2007 8:08:04 GMT 1
I don't think US law books would count for much here, god even Croatian lawbooks don't cuont for much! Verbal contracts aren't worth the paper they're writen on here and it's illegal and totally non-binding to have non-Croatian language contracts here. The law states that even notarised translatoins can be disputed as they are far too often "direct" translations without relation to context - I'm feeling very in the know here as myself and our lawyer are prepping a legal case for Monday and we had a 6am start! Yaay! I'm asking him as I type. No, it's nonsense to make purely non-Croatian contracts for Croatian business or property, you have almost 0% in court, and even with a translation (side by side as Carol excellently states) differences in the two versions put the ball firmly in the local side of the court. Welcome to Croatia! 1.2 million pending CIVIL cases, over 200,000 of those property related - good luck in court, in 2013, when we're part of Comecon! I am just curious... I can't remember some stuff from my law books and contract books and they are still packed away since my move in May. Say 2 people from Britian that reside in Croatia, write a contract up in English and have it notarized and the whole bit. You are saying that contract is not binding and is invalid because of the language, this sounds like nonsense to me. So what happens when 2 people make a verbal contract in English who reside in Croatia....hahaha is that invalid tooo! ### Carol did you ever do a contract completely in English with clients who are both Brits in Croatia? They are not US law books but Croatian Law books. I just could not remember what the law was exactly so I wanted to look it up but my books are in storage.... I am to lazy to go through all my boxes. Since we will be moving again, I don't want to unpack everything. Verbal contracts are a joke.... you can sometimes win in small claims courts here in the USA but not very often. I think in the next couple of years the court system will change. Especially if we get into the EU. To many are complaining at the speed of court cases.... I think the pressure from the public will change things.... cross your fingers.
|
|
|
Post by irac on Aug 18, 2007 9:02:37 GMT 1
A surprise to see EU entry support from certain parts of the States, but it's beginning to grow here and hopefully the coutnry can be cleaned up enough for entry. At long last even politicos are stopping using the "But we're better than x or y" defence for their crapulence and corruption. I don't think US law books would count for much here, god even Croatian lawbooks don't cuont for much! Verbal contracts aren't worth the paper they're writen on here and it's illegal and totally non-binding to have non-Croatian language contracts here. The law states that even notarised translatoins can be disputed as they are far too often "direct" translations without relation to context - I'm feeling very in the know here as myself and our lawyer are prepping a legal case for Monday and we had a 6am start! Yaay! I'm asking him as I type. No, it's nonsense to make purely non-Croatian contracts for Croatian business or property, you have almost 0% in court, and even with a translation (side by side as Carol excellently states) differences in the two versions put the ball firmly in the local side of the court. Welcome to Croatia! 1.2 million pending CIVIL cases, over 200,000 of those property related - good luck in court, in 2013, when we're part of Comecon! They are not US law books but Croatian Law books. I just could not remember what the law was exactly so I wanted to look it up but my books are in storage.... I am to lazy to go through all my boxes. Since we will be moving again, I don't want to unpack everything. Verbal contracts are a joke.... you can sometimes win in small claims courts here in the USA but not very often. I think in the next couple of years the court system will change. Especially if we get into the EU. To many are complaining at the speed of court cases.... I think the pressure from the public will change things.... cross your fingers.
|
|
|
Post by darcy on Aug 18, 2007 9:27:00 GMT 1
the contract needs to be in croatian but what's wrong with having a written translation? We put the english and croatian versions on the same page (cro in the left, english in the right column) and then everyone knows what they are signing up to. When you talk about the contract I think you talk about your "real estate agent" contract. I hope you polished it nicely, but giving an English translation opens a door of possible misunderstanding. I hope your translation is accurate (if you need 1 week to get contract right, you need 2 weeks to get the translation correct). BTW, do you advertise in the UK (on some web page etc.)? If you do, do you need to have a UK license and are you bound to any UK customer protection rules? In regards to the Croatian court system, you need to know there is nothing wrong with the law (in theory, verbal contract is OK), problem is that system was deliberately broken. Imagine what would happen to cca 80% of local government officials within any functioning court system prosecuted only on the public procurement charges?
|
|