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Post by Madgolfer on Jul 21, 2008 9:10:52 GMT 1
Hi Carol,
IMO Cleaning the title paperwork should always be the responsibility of the seller.
Unless agreed to as part of the sales contract, the buyer takes on repairing any problems with the structure of the building. (Excluding new built properties of course !!!!!)
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Post by darcy on Jul 22, 2008 12:23:03 GMT 1
Madgolfer,
1. How can I sort out other people's legal affairs? Only by committing a fraud, I have no other explanation. I can't prevent other parties to register their interests in the property and delay the sale, but that is clearly responsibility of the seller before putting the property on the market. I think it is quite OK for the buyer to ask for price adjustment pending delays in the sale or to withdraw the offer.
2. If the property got a structural damage unknown at the time of the initial price agreement and the damage has not been clearly communicated to the seller in advance, I think there are 2 options - for the seller to rectify the problem or to drop the sale price.
3. My bigger concern are the RE agents itself and in particular RE agents targeting foreign buyers and above all RE agents with non-Croatian background who so easily pick up unacceptable business practices they would never even try back home.
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Post by Madgolfer on Jul 23, 2008 9:50:39 GMT 1
Hi Darcy "that is clearly responsibility of the seller before putting the property on the market. " I completely and wholeheartedly agree with your comment, but in reality very few sellers are prepared to "clean" their title paperwork until they have a buyer in place. There are very few agencies who will only sell property where the papers are cleaned in advance ........... "for the seller to rectify the problem or to drop the sale price." Again I agree but would ask, would anyone buy a property in their home Country without a structural survey......... "My bigger concern are the RE agents itself and in particular RE agents targeting foreign buyers and above all RE agents with non-Croatian background who so easily pick up unacceptable business practices they would never even try back home. " Music to my ears !!!!!!! You are again absolutely right. Any "foreign" non-cro national RE agencies should adopt good business practices, not try and get away with what they can because they are in a different Country where the laws are perhaps a bit more flexible. Again I would be delighted to find out which "foreign" RE agencies do adopt a code of good practice....... The new "Real Estate Agency Law" will sort out the wheat from the chaff" so to speak and hopefully put paid to many of your concerns.
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Post by darcy on Jul 23, 2008 11:53:01 GMT 1
Madgolfer,
I strongly disagree that any kind of law might change anything in Croatia. I have worked there for a year and half, their laws were quite OK, but they did not apply them and they still do not. I learned that Croatia worked the best "under pressure", much better then with "a carrot and a stick". They might pass any bill you like and chuck it in somewhere safe.
My opinion that only voluntary code implemented by the RE agents themselves might push few things - accurate advertising (a house of my neighbour in Croatia is getting bigger and bigger every few months when I go and check asking prices for the properties), clean land office papers (no comment necessary) and clean explanation about the process of sale where buyers and sellers are reasonably protected - process explained to the seller and to the serious buyer, when they get to that stage. Only that might attract more foreign buyers and keep the prices on today’s level.
My probably find out that my comments from time to time are pretty sore about Croatia. Only reason are people asking me "how did you go with your Croatian investment, you know my wife and I were thinking ...”. My answer is "I am doing well, because …, but ..." as I do not want bad word from my colleagues or business partners. If someone is really serious, I forward them the link to this forum to judge for themselves.
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Post by ray51 on Jul 24, 2008 7:25:02 GMT 1
Hi Carol, IMO Cleaning the title paperwork should always be the responsibility of the seller. Unless agreed to as part of the sales contract, the buyer takes on repairing any problems with the structure of the building. (Excluding new built properties of course !!!!!) Is there such a recognised term as " latent defect" ? What kind of guarantees might one get with newly -built properties ? Anone had expeience/s with " Domus", "Marles" or similar suppliers ?
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Post by Carol on Jul 24, 2008 9:10:13 GMT 1
What kind of guarantees might one get with newly -built properties ? Honestly? You may well get promises but it is just words and doesn't mean anything when something actually goes wrong. The best you can hope for is some good will. One of the problems in the market here is developers do not try to build up a brand name so reputation isn't such a valuable commodity. Another problem in the country generally is a very low level (complete lack?) of consumer protection. It is buyer beware here, I am sorry to say.
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Post by Madgolfer on Jul 24, 2008 9:59:15 GMT 1
Ray51 "What kind of guarantees might one get with newly -built properties ?" Developers Insurance is virtually non existent and can be quite expensive to get. One backed/offered by the developers own funding bank is the best route. Retention. Again not the easiest thing to get into a contract and only offers you perhaps 10% of the agreed price, but does at least give you some clout if things go wrong. Darcy. "I strongly disagree that any kind of law might change anything in Croatia." The new law governing Real Estate transactions will have an effect, given time. Most likely it will be "policed" by other genuine agencies.......enforcement is of course another matter, but if the fines, regulations and restrictions being proposed are bought into law next year, it is a start. Whats the alternative ? Do nothing ? Give it time and it will work. "only voluntary code implemented by the RE agents themselves might push few things...." I am sure that this is in hand........watch this space
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Post by Madgolfer on Jul 24, 2008 10:06:02 GMT 1
PS. Developers insurance should of course be offered and supplied by the developer, not the buyer.
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Post by darcy on Jul 26, 2008 10:19:12 GMT 1
Ray51 "What kind of guarantees might one get with newly -built Darcy. "I strongly disagree that any kind of law might change anything in Croatia." The new law governing Real Estate transactions will have an effect, given time. Most likely it will be "policed" by other genuine agencies.......enforcement is of course another matter, but if the fines, regulations and restrictions being proposed are bought into law next year, it is a start. Whats the alternative ? Do nothing ? Give it time and it will work. Current problem are property prices that are unreasonably high in Croatia and the correction is imminent. RE agencies can sit and wait for a law to kick off, but that will come too late - it will try to revive a dead horse. Will any new law have any effect? No, I do not think so. If you just take a Croatian Building Code as an example of an area that requires reasonable level of regulation in the public interest, the chances are pretty slim. For instance, any developer can legally sell a property without completing all building inspection required by law without any penalty. The buyer needs to be very well aware of these circumstances. The buyer might end up with the property being demolished, although the property has been built by the licensed developer.
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Post by Ribaric on Jul 26, 2008 14:23:43 GMT 1
A bit of light relief. We went to see a nice 2 bed bungalow in the hills outside of Varazdin. It was nicely put together but a bit small with not much of a view and a bit close to the old road to Zagreb to qualify as an idylic quiet place in the country. The owner was very uneasy each time we asked about the price, we were thinking somewhere in the region of 40/50K Euros although we decided it wasn't for us anyway. Before we had a chance to say "thanks but no thanks" the owner said "270,000 Euros". I thought I'd misheard 27,000 so I started thinking seriously about it, but no..... 270 big ones is what was quoted. When we said we wouldn't be pursuing this, there was a stunned silence followed by the comment "It's really cheap, I'd thought you'd jump at the chance".
Earth calling owner .... helloooooo.....
A wind up? Who can be sure but I don't think it was.
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Post by happy on Jul 26, 2008 14:32:03 GMT 1
A bit of light relief. We went to see a nice 2 bed bungalow in the hills outside of Varazdin. It was nicely put together but a bit small with not much of a view and a bit close to the old road to Zagreb to qualify as an idylic quiet place in the country. The owner was very uneasy each time we asked about the price, we were thinking somewhere in the region of 40/50K Euros although we decided it wasn't for us anyway. Before we had a chance to say "thanks but no thanks" the owner said "270,000 Euros". I thought I'd misheard 27,000 so I started thinking seriously about it, but no..... 270 big ones is what was quoted. When we said we wouldn't be pursuing this, there was a stunned silence followed by the comment "It's really cheap, I'd thought you'd jump at the chance". Earth calling owner .... helloooooo..... A wind up? Who can be sure but I don't think it was. He must have thought you were one of those Russian buyers that the news papers keep writing about.
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Post by Valleycat on Jul 26, 2008 18:18:40 GMT 1
Before we had a chance to say "thanks but no thanks" the owner said "270,000 Euros". I thought I'd misheard 27,000 so I started thinking seriously about it, but no..... 270 big ones is what was quoted. When we said we wouldn't be pursuing this, there was a stunned silence followed by the comment "It's really cheap, I'd thought you'd jump at the chance". Earth calling owner .... helloooooo..... A wind up? Who can be sure but I don't think it was. If he was having a hard time spitting out the price. . . guess there was not way of getting the information out of him before you even went there. . . wasting your time and gas. Just wondering.. .about the custom here. . standard practice. . . is it a sin to have basic information before hand? Like size. .. number of rooms. . features. . . the sales price. . . this guy needs an agent. . . but he won't do it. This is not a motivated seller. . . end of story. . . shall we wish him all the best?
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Post by Carol on Jul 26, 2008 20:15:51 GMT 1
some people seem to find it a bit odd when agents want photos of inside their house. It was a quite common problem 4 years ago but is getting less common all the time. Those same people don't see why they should reveal how many rooms etc are in THEIR house. Their view is bring a "serious" buyer and then we'll talk.
Rib - any chance he meant 270k kunas?
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Post by Valleycat on Jul 26, 2008 21:32:53 GMT 1
Carol. . got a question for you.
When you bring them the serious buyer. . . is there a way that they can cut you out of the transaction?
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Post by Carol on Jul 27, 2008 7:32:00 GMT 1
They can try! The two favoured ways is for a potential buyer to see the property on the internet, try to glean as much info as possible by email (I've had people ask for the street address) and then go knock on the door. The other one is to let me do all the work, negotiate a deal between them, run around fretting about every little detail and then not pay me at the end. I minimise the potential for both by not helping out with the address and getting contracts signed before we start work.
Sellers are actually getting quite good about signing these now. Maybe it is because the market is so weak and they've nothing to lose because the contract says no sale, no fee. Its the same with (almost) all agencies. Anyway, I have a thoery that the people who won't make an agreement in writing up front are the ones who most likely will refuse to pay me at the end and I can't afford to work for free, so I won't work for them.
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