Post by irac on Jan 28, 2008 10:19:37 GMT 1
You're dead right, it's as safe in the Uk, Germany or Ireland as here, it all depends on where you live and what you do. Driving here is far worse and results in way more fatalities and serious accidents than Ireland or the UK, not only stats but experience can tell anyone that. The local media is still afraid to speak out, but there are outlets 9free from State censorshop) that are pushing things on a bit. Drugs and AIDS/HIV were forever airbrushed out of the picture, but a number of very brave and decent zastupniks (especially a HDZ member and ex-water polo star) have gone out of their way to try move the situation on. It's not easy in a society where "there are no gays", and "drugs are only in the west" and where it's normal to have to nod uneasy agreement in the fact that not only gays get AIDS.
I can't fully agree with you on the subject of ethnic tension being less of a problem than in the UK, it is rife in Croatia, not just against people of colour, other religions etc, it's always there and probably won't die out for a generation or two, it's resulted in ethnic cleansing, massacres and ongoing discrimination, and if it were only from one side you could read it, but no one group is blameless.
On the subject of policing, I believe it is normal and progressive to encourage people from ethnic minorities to join local police forces (taking it as a stand alone subject), it shows a remarkable openness and willingness to accept and integrate. It also reaches out to an ethnic minority and fastforwards such a process that has caused huge problems for other countries experiencing immigration in the past, not least the UK, USA or Germany. And just so that it's straight, the police force is representative of the population (stable) makeup to a large degree and there is no "anti-Irish" positive discrimination.
It is, as you say, subjective, but it would be interesting if the local media open up to reality what will happen, in my eyes it would be good, the country would move on and people would be held to account (and the opposition would be braver, or just brave). I'm still hoping it will get better, hopefully by 2015 (when Croatia actually make some rugby progress) it'll be hunky dory.
“Irac” I do try to read the local papers and I do appreciate what you are saying. There are unfortunately murders and crimes taking place all over the world including Croatia. But because there are less people here and less overcrowding it just appears less common and somehow I feel myself and my family are safer. In the last 12 months I can only remember 2 or 3 incidents in Istria that truly shocked me, whereas I find it’s a daily news occurrence in Britain.
The roads here I admit are at times dangerous but all roads are. Statistics are also misleading and can be interpreted in several ways. For example.
If there are 100 cars in Croatia and the accident rate is 2 in a100 per day then there are 2 accidents per day.
If there are 1,000 cars in the Uk and the accident rate is 1 in a hundred there are 10 accidents. So which country has the safer roads.
Suffice to say no matter which country you live in or however you manipulate the example all roads are dangerous.
Re - Racial tension and ethnic tension again I can concur with you .It is a problem here but again it is no where near the problems that the UK are currently encountering. And I do hope that the Croatian Government soon address the situation .
Re. Police – Poland – Ireland
No I am not being discriminative The point that I am was trying to make was that there are so many Polish in that area now that they specifically employed the polish policemen to police them. Therefore is that anti discriminative, If your not Polish you cant get the job.
Re - Girls prettier. All the women in the world are pretty lets just agree on that. But they aren’t half nice here !!!
Re – Fight. You missed the point I think. What I was trying to say is that whenever I went out or when I go out in for a drink in England I always witness a fight especially on a Saturday night and yes they do here but it is a long way of the extent that it happens in the UK.
Re- Organic wine from Cork. No I haven’t tried it, So next time you in Istria feel free to call in and I will help you sample it and we can start our on thread on the merits of Organic wine from Cork v Istrian wine. Of course we would have to do lots of research. !!
“pocketvenus”
Re food is better. Are you for real ? How can mass produced frozen and dried microwave foods, processed tinned food, over farmed and chemical induced products be any where near a “millions times better”. When you go to your local supermarket does your lettuce have mud on it? No because its pre packed in a bag. Ever wondered why its so crispy ? Did you know that tomatoes are not perfectly round and that they should actually smell of tomatoes. Did you know a real natural cucumber does not grow straight? If you prefer the taste of greenhouse food with all the insecticides on it then yes the UK food is better. Have a pot noodle for me
In the last 10 years in the Uk there has been countless number of animal related diseases and culls due largely to mass production and over breeding
Re – Tv. You can Keep It. Quick you have just missed Eastenders
“gmh” I agree. Also doing ok in Tennis, Skiing, water polo, handball, volleyball, basketball, swimming and Judo. For a small country Croatia do pretty good at most sports considering that the sports do not have millions of pounds of lottery money thrown at them. As to the Croatian football team. I am reminded daily, enough said
I was only commenting on what I read in the paper and no it wasn’t the mail or the express it was the guardian and the telegraph , and yes it is tabloid nonsense. One of the reasons for writing the thread in the first place was that I was shocked by what I read, maybe I do not read enough papers and maybe that’s the reason why.Mean while i will continue trying to live happy ever after in Croatia with all its beauty and all its faults
I can't fully agree with you on the subject of ethnic tension being less of a problem than in the UK, it is rife in Croatia, not just against people of colour, other religions etc, it's always there and probably won't die out for a generation or two, it's resulted in ethnic cleansing, massacres and ongoing discrimination, and if it were only from one side you could read it, but no one group is blameless.
On the subject of policing, I believe it is normal and progressive to encourage people from ethnic minorities to join local police forces (taking it as a stand alone subject), it shows a remarkable openness and willingness to accept and integrate. It also reaches out to an ethnic minority and fastforwards such a process that has caused huge problems for other countries experiencing immigration in the past, not least the UK, USA or Germany. And just so that it's straight, the police force is representative of the population (stable) makeup to a large degree and there is no "anti-Irish" positive discrimination.
It is, as you say, subjective, but it would be interesting if the local media open up to reality what will happen, in my eyes it would be good, the country would move on and people would be held to account (and the opposition would be braver, or just brave). I'm still hoping it will get better, hopefully by 2015 (when Croatia actually make some rugby progress) it'll be hunky dory.
upthevilla said:
“Irac” I do try to read the local papers and I do appreciate what you are saying. There are unfortunately murders and crimes taking place all over the world including Croatia. But because there are less people here and less overcrowding it just appears less common and somehow I feel myself and my family are safer. In the last 12 months I can only remember 2 or 3 incidents in Istria that truly shocked me, whereas I find it’s a daily news occurrence in Britain.
The roads here I admit are at times dangerous but all roads are. Statistics are also misleading and can be interpreted in several ways. For example.
If there are 100 cars in Croatia and the accident rate is 2 in a100 per day then there are 2 accidents per day.
If there are 1,000 cars in the Uk and the accident rate is 1 in a hundred there are 10 accidents. So which country has the safer roads.
Suffice to say no matter which country you live in or however you manipulate the example all roads are dangerous.
Re - Racial tension and ethnic tension again I can concur with you .It is a problem here but again it is no where near the problems that the UK are currently encountering. And I do hope that the Croatian Government soon address the situation .
Re. Police – Poland – Ireland
No I am not being discriminative The point that I am was trying to make was that there are so many Polish in that area now that they specifically employed the polish policemen to police them. Therefore is that anti discriminative, If your not Polish you cant get the job.
Re - Girls prettier. All the women in the world are pretty lets just agree on that. But they aren’t half nice here !!!
Re – Fight. You missed the point I think. What I was trying to say is that whenever I went out or when I go out in for a drink in England I always witness a fight especially on a Saturday night and yes they do here but it is a long way of the extent that it happens in the UK.
Re- Organic wine from Cork. No I haven’t tried it, So next time you in Istria feel free to call in and I will help you sample it and we can start our on thread on the merits of Organic wine from Cork v Istrian wine. Of course we would have to do lots of research. !!
“pocketvenus”
Re food is better. Are you for real ? How can mass produced frozen and dried microwave foods, processed tinned food, over farmed and chemical induced products be any where near a “millions times better”. When you go to your local supermarket does your lettuce have mud on it? No because its pre packed in a bag. Ever wondered why its so crispy ? Did you know that tomatoes are not perfectly round and that they should actually smell of tomatoes. Did you know a real natural cucumber does not grow straight? If you prefer the taste of greenhouse food with all the insecticides on it then yes the UK food is better. Have a pot noodle for me
In the last 10 years in the Uk there has been countless number of animal related diseases and culls due largely to mass production and over breeding
Re – Tv. You can Keep It. Quick you have just missed Eastenders
“gmh” I agree. Also doing ok in Tennis, Skiing, water polo, handball, volleyball, basketball, swimming and Judo. For a small country Croatia do pretty good at most sports considering that the sports do not have millions of pounds of lottery money thrown at them. As to the Croatian football team. I am reminded daily, enough said
I was only commenting on what I read in the paper and no it wasn’t the mail or the express it was the guardian and the telegraph , and yes it is tabloid nonsense. One of the reasons for writing the thread in the first place was that I was shocked by what I read, maybe I do not read enough papers and maybe that’s the reason why.Mean while i will continue trying to live happy ever after in Croatia with all its beauty and all its faults