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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Mar 22, 2005 19:05:42 GMT 1
Finnelach your point regarding Draza Mihajlovic being abandoned by the British is incorrect. They did not switch allegiance to the Partisans as a result of collaborating with the Nazis.
If you check every side collaborated with the Nazi's. Even the Ustashe and Chetniks worked together against the Partisans at one point. The truth is that the SOE (Special Operations Executive) sent two british agents to Yugoslavia, one went to the Chetniks the other Partisans.
The reports back from these agents indicated that although the intentions of Draza Mihajlovic were in support of a royalist Yugoslavia his troops were not under his control and were not as well controlled. The report back from the partisans exagerrated claims that they were doing very well in combat situations with the Germans and with that came the recommendation that the British should support the Partisans rather than the Chetniks.
However, i agree with your subsequent comments that none of them were angels. You must also remember that it is also a fact that their were more Croatians in the Partisans than in the Ustashe. Tito was also ethnically a Croatian and who was the last person who tried to save the old Yugoslavia - Ante Markovic. A bit of a pattern developing?
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Post by Marija on Mar 27, 2005 2:26:11 GMT 1
Chetniks were the largest resistance movement durring ww2. This group save Thousands of lives!! Further, it is obvious most of these response come from people who are seriously ignorant. It is a fact that Serb's, yes I said Serbs, saved thousands of lives during ww2. That the Chetnik movement was a wonderful movement that actually stood up for what was right and didnt support Hitler even though most of the time it meant their lives. In addition, it is also evident that people who criticize this movement are simply compensating for the fact that their ancestors killed millions of innocent people because of racial ideologies.
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 27, 2005 11:55:49 GMT 1
Chetniks were the largest resistance movement durring ww2. This group save Thousands of lives!! Further, it is obvious most of these response come from people who are seriously ignorant. It is a fact that Serb's, yes I said Serbs, saved thousands of lives during ww2. That the Chetnik movement was a wonderful movement that actually stood up for what was right and didnt support Hitler even though most of the time it meant their lives. In addition, it is also evident that people who criticize this movement are simply compensating for the fact that their ancestors killed millions of innocent people because of racial ideologies. Marija, you are free to believe in whatever you want ... I honnestly do believe that possible reaction on "general injustice" and "world conspiracies" indeed can be compensated by conquesting new paths in the "better and brighter past" ... But somehow, you missed forum. Nobody care about "Chetnics - reporting from heaven" less then we do here. Same comes to all other WWII "heavenly creatures". Good luck.
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Post by Three Lions on Mar 27, 2005 12:30:19 GMT 1
Marija, you are free to believe in whatever you want ... I honnestly do believe that possible reaction on "general injustice" and "world conspiracies" indeed can be compensated by conquesting new paths in the "better and brighter past" ... But somehow, you missed forum. Nobody care about "Chetnics - reporting from heaven" less then we do here. Same comes to all other WWII "heavenly creatures". Good luck. Actually she made a relevant and valid point, and what you've said needs some serious explaining, perhaps by an Alien life form.
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 27, 2005 15:22:08 GMT 1
Actually she made a relevant and valid point, and what you've said needs some serious explaining, perhaps by an Alien life form. Yep ... you Chethnics are alienforms for me for at least 10 years (thanks God) ... So dont bother ... Enjoy your relevance and validity wherever you are ...
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Post by Three Lions on Mar 27, 2005 16:10:30 GMT 1
...that's personal to you but you still haven't disputed the fact that the Chetniks were an anti-fascist force...so her point was valid and your point was pointless
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 27, 2005 17:56:15 GMT 1
...that's personal to you but you still haven't disputed the fact that the Chetniks were an anti-fascist force...so her point was valid and your point was pointless My point considering Chetniks is same as 10 years ago ... very efficient, and not forum-oriented. Personaly, you can check it again ... feel free.
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Mar 27, 2005 19:03:22 GMT 1
Three Lions and Marija, the chetnik movement was a pro-kingdom force that did try and ally with Hitler on a number of occasions during World War II in an attempt to defeat the Partisans.
As a serb, i have seen some very good former chetnik soldiers and by good i mean people who today are very pragmatic and who accept that at that time didnt really understand either the Partisan or Chetnik rhetoric, they signed up because they felt the their families and villages were in danger. In the majority of our cases, the Chetniks came along first and therefore they signed up to them.
At the same time, Serbs must also accept that Chetniks committed atrocities, no better than Ustashe. They were allied to the British and anti-nazi forces but this does not mean they were whiter than white.
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Post by Ugursuz on Mar 28, 2005 8:26:43 GMT 1
Chetniks were the largest resistance movement durring ww2. This group save Thousands of lives!! Further, it is obvious most of these response come from people who are seriously ignorant. It is a fact that Serb's, yes I said Serbs, saved thousands of lives during ww2. That the Chetnik movement was a wonderful movement that actually stood up for what was right and didnt support Hitler even though most of the time it meant their lives. In addition, it is also evident that people who criticize this movement are simply compensating for the fact that their ancestors killed millions of innocent people because of racial ideologies. I think Ustashe were excellent guys who took exceptional care about their people and nation. I also think they saved a lot of lives by protecting them from murderous chetniks! Serbian regime exterminated all Jews by the end of 1942 (in Banica concentration camp) but Serbian regime was too valuable for british politics for this to be questioned too seriously. NOW TELL ME; WHO IS RIGHT? MARIJA CHETNIKUSA OR MYSELF? BECAUSE BOTH OF US CANNOT BE RIGHT.
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Post by Three Lions on Mar 28, 2005 10:59:54 GMT 1
Well that's the Balkans isn't it! Tell me why can't both sides be right? They're fighting for their cause not for the other side. They have their heroes, you have yours, obviously no side is better than the other, but people do have differents views.
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Post by shamrock on Mar 28, 2005 12:09:28 GMT 1
Hi Chetniks= Royalist,Ustash=Fascist & Partisans=Communist, There were good and bad in all of these groups.Everybody has views that differ on this subject and I can only go on what I have read and been told.Who writes the books?
Shamrock
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Mar 28, 2005 18:20:42 GMT 1
Shamrock that is a bit too simple an explanation of the three waring factions, if you ever learn one thing about the balkans its that nothing is ever that simple.
Chetniks were royalist, but the Royal Kingdom of Yugoslavia was a sorry country for many people and was not widely supported in Croatia and Slovenia, even at this stage it was Serb dominated and nothing but a smoke screen towards the eventual creation of an enlarged Serbia.
Ustashe were indeed fascist, but they were simple villagers who were nothing more than butchers, even the Germans were horrified at their level of brutality.
But the majority of Croatians were Partisans, Partisans were communist but were supported by the intelligensia of Yugoslavia, they were also widely supported by the peoples of the former Yugoslav republics, in the belief that a new Yugoslavia would be formed that was not a pro-serbian as the Kingdom was.
It is true to say their would have been good and bad on all sides regardless. People should also remember that the former Yugoslavia was one of the most advanced and liberal communist societies (a model the Chinese are very successfully developing!!), and the standard of living for the general public was better then than today. But we are at a point of political correctness today that says we must "bash" communism and communists because the Americans say that it must be bad and they must be evil people!.
And no i am not a communist in any way!
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Post by srbin on Mar 31, 2005 14:39:31 GMT 1
draza mihajlovic was anti fashist and a anti communist ,world can regognise the difference between good and evil , and between chetniks and ustashas ,also now everybody know that in ndh ustashe were slaughtered over the 800 000 serbs , 200 000 jewish and many others anti nazis no matter are they were democratic,comunist,monarchic and so. if you compare a condittion in a croatia 1941 and 2005 then you got a realise = nothing s change and i ll neva change becouse , you live on a land curse ,d**ned , from a people which ustasha killed. also croats are unic , they had in a 1941 1945 camp for a children i nvelika gradishaka ,(death camp)they were slaughtered over the 10 000 serbs , jewish children . so if you talk about honor then dont talk about your self,modern history will neva forgive you and serb wiil neva forgive you too.
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Post by GS on Mar 31, 2005 15:00:25 GMT 1
draza mihajlovic was anti fashist and a anti communist ,world can regognise the difference between good and evil , and between chetniks and ustashas ,also now everybody know that in ndh ustashe were slaughtered over the 800 000 serbs , 200 000 jewish and many others anti nazis no matter are they were democratic,comunist,monarchic and so. if you compare a condittion in a croatia 1941 and 2005 then you got a realise = nothing s change and i ll neva change becouse , you live on a land curse ,d**ned , from a people which ustasha killed. also croats are unic , they had in a 1941 1945 camp for a children i nvelika gradishaka ,(death camp)they were slaughtered over the 10 000 serbs , jewish children . so if you talk about honor then dont talk about your self,modern history will neva forgive you and serb wiil neva forgive you too. BLAH BLAH ing BLAH ... another giving us history lessons....
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Post by EMIZ on Mar 31, 2005 15:04:59 GMT 1
I wish you Croats and Serbs would just kiss and make up
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