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Post by star on Mar 9, 2005 20:15:24 GMT 1
After watching Prof. C. Michael Adams discuss Croatia in the documentary "Freedom From Despair" I started looking for some of his works and came across one of his books online. Very interesting reading which explodes some of the commonly held misconceptions: mirror.veus.hr/myth/
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Post by Milica on Mar 9, 2005 22:16:18 GMT 1
Adams is very supportive of Croatia and been for number of years. Thank you Sir!
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Post by EMIZ on Mar 9, 2005 22:46:04 GMT 1
Why do you lot only read propoganda? regardless of its source, read something objective, not something that says how wonderful Croatia is; can you not handle the truth.
When I first moved to Croatia, I was given so many history books, it was such BS it was pathetic, Croats want to paint a false picture of their history.
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Post by star on Mar 10, 2005 1:34:25 GMT 1
Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean its propaganda. Instead of poisoning the well, try to put up refutations. In my experience people attach dismissive labels to works they don't like or have no answers for.
Adams doesn't try to whitewash history but deflate the gross misconceptions and distortions put out by the serb dominated yugoslave government. Distortions which serb leaders have been using for decades to justify their actions.
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Post by Three Lions on Mar 10, 2005 2:23:30 GMT 1
It has no value as an aid to history. You wouldn't write a document discrediting every false claim about America, or any other country for that matter, so why do it for Croatia? The Croatian Flag was used as a Fascist Symbol, some Croatians did fight for the Axis powers, there was Croatian assassins, there where Croatian extermination camps etc etc etc.
What are his reasons for writing this?
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Post by star on Mar 10, 2005 3:22:13 GMT 1
It has no value as an aid to history. You wouldn't write a document discrediting every false claim about America, or any other country for that matter, so why do it for Croatia? The Croatian Flag was used as a Fascist Symbol, some Croatians did fight for the Axis powers, there was Croatian assassins, there where Croatian extermination camps etc etc etc. What are his reasons for writing this? I'm flabergasted. Of course it had tremdous value. As the old saying goes "A lie repeated often enough is eventually believed." For a claim to be false, it has to be deemed as such first. You can't just assume everyone already believes it to be false, on the contrary most people believe the propaganda about Croatia. Adams tries to balance out the rhetoric like the ones you use. Was the checkerboard used by the fascists? Yes. Was it also used hundreds of years before and even by the the yugsolav communists? yes. So why accuse croatia of ressurecting a fascist symbol when in fact it is a much older symbol used even by the communists? It was to justify aggression against croatia. Did croatians fight for the axis? Yes. Did croatias also fight against the axis? Yes. In the beginning 80% of the partisans were of croatian origin including their leader. Most were from the dalmatian region who resented Italian fascist rule. Were there croatian assassins? Of course. Did a croatian assassinate the serbian king? No. He was macedonian. Were there concentration camps? Yes. Were 2 million people killed? No. Were there conentration camps in serbia as well? Yes. Belgrade was the first city to declar itself "jew free". As for his reason for writing it, just read the introduction.
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Post by Three Lions on Mar 10, 2005 6:06:44 GMT 1
It reads like a sermon, and what, the serbs dominate the whole of the media worlds, including the BBC, CNN and all the other broadcasting companies around the world. I like the statement at the end which states that it has nothing to do with the Croatian government. Why the necessity to print that?
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Post by Shannon on Mar 10, 2005 13:05:14 GMT 1
Star, I, for one, found it useful and thanks for posting it. I think these "myths" that people keep repeating are not to be found in modern CREDIBLE history books. But they do still exist, and it's valuable for historical record for people to point out falsehoods where they see them.
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Post by barba Jere on Mar 10, 2005 18:10:19 GMT 1
Why do you lot only read propoganda? regardless of its source, read something objective, not something that says how wonderful Croatia is; can you not handle the truth. When I first moved to Croatia, I was given so many history books, it was such BS it was pathetic, Croats want to paint a false picture of their history. while Brits want to paint a false picture of the history of the whole world.
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Post by gavin on Mar 10, 2005 18:36:57 GMT 1
Why do you lot only read propoganda? regardless of its source, read something objective, not something that says how wonderful Croatia is; can you not handle the truth. When I first moved to Croatia, I was given so many history books, it was such BS it was pathetic, Croats want to paint a false picture of their history. Emiz, something doesn't have to be negative to be objective !! The author isn't croatian,so why do you think he's not being objective? just because he doesn't share your same negative outlook? Perhaps you could recomend some 'objective' reading for us then. I don't believe croatia is completey innocent in all it's past dealings, but I don't believe any other country is either. The fact is this country has been provoked and invaded by its neighbours for centuries, I'm surprised that the British didn't come and try to colonise at some point. They seemed to like to pick on small undeveloped nations.
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Post by FreshAir on Mar 10, 2005 19:50:30 GMT 1
while Brits want to paint a false picture of the history of the whole world. Verrrry TRUE!!!!
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Post by FreshAir on Mar 10, 2005 20:01:21 GMT 1
I'm flabergasted. Of course it had tremdous value. As the old saying goes "A lie repeated often enough is eventually believed." For a claim to be false, it has to be deemed as such first. You can't just assume everyone already believes it to be false, on the contrary most people believe the propaganda about Croatia. Adams tries to balance out the rhetoric like the ones you use. Was the checkerboard used by the fascists? Yes. Was it also used hundreds of years before and even by the the yugsolav communists? yes. So why accuse croatia of ressurecting a fascist symbol when in fact it is a much older symbol used even by the communists? It was to justify aggression against croatia. Did croatians fight for the axis? Yes. Did croatias also fight against the axis? Yes. In the beginning 80% of the partisans were of croatian origin including their leader. Most were from the dalmatian region who resented Italian fascist rule. Were there croatian assassins? Of course. Did a croatian assassinate the serbian king? No. He was macedonian. Were there concentration camps? Yes. Were 2 million people killed? No. Were there conentration camps in serbia as well? Yes. Belgrade was the first city to declar itself "jew free". As for his reason for writing it, just read the introduction. This is beyond some of these idiots comprehension, they have been force fed as children on their little english history books, that is all they know, they have been brainwashed. They can't believe what this Author has to say because it would go against all that english propaganda that was shoved down their throats as children. A lie repeated often enough is eventually believed." So true and so sad that this is a fact! Intelligent people can go beyond what they were taught in school and research, be open minded and hear others experiences! It is kind of like the Bleiburg marches (Death marches) There are still people today that don't know about this or they don't want to believe that Brits and Americans did this atrocious act! It is trully sad the ignorance that prevails in this day and age!
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Another Guest who is NOT U2
Guest
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Post by Another Guest who is NOT U2 on Mar 10, 2005 20:15:42 GMT 1
Why do you lot only read propoganda? regardless of its source, read something objective, not something that says how wonderful Croatia is; can you not handle the truth. When I first moved to Croatia, I was given so many history books, it was such BS it was pathetic, Croats want to paint a false picture of their history. After reading hundreds of posts on here i concluded that you are a very disturbed child. It is unbelievable the amount of ridiculous accusations, false, quite comic statements and irrational, paranoid behavior. I don't know how often do you go out of your flat but it sounds like you spend there 23 1/2 a day, because your picture of Croatia is very incorrect.
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Post by Three Lions on Mar 10, 2005 21:20:22 GMT 1
Us Brits invented concentration camps, I have not seen that denied by us in any publication. It was an evil act designed to cut supplies off from the Boers in the second South African war. It resulted in thousands of innocent Boer civilians dying.
You Croats had extermination camps in your country that were designed to kill people of a different race or religion. You won't go forward until you learn to accept your past. You will learn nothing from this publication.
Its just another dangerous generalistion of the Balkans. God help you.
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Post by barba Jere on Mar 10, 2005 21:40:11 GMT 1
Us Brits invented concentration camps, I have not seen that denied by us in any publication. It was an evil act designed to cut supplies off from the Boers in the second South African war. It resulted in thousands of innocent Boer civilians dying. You Croats had extermination camps in your country that were designed to kill people of a different race or religion. You won't go forward until you learn to accept your past. You will learn nothing from this publication. Its just another dangerous generalistion of the Balkans. God help you. as if we dont know. I have been filled with that stuff all of my childhood. Films books non stop this Jasenovac was on the agenda. Who the hell in Croatia never heard of that?Just recently there was Latinica about it.
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