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Post by valiant 1 on Apr 3, 2005 17:43:52 GMT 1
yeah star and ribaric. i like arguing about the history of croats because its interesting. its a bit of a mystery. star, i think that its weird that 1 man in 1700s came up with that theory of croats being of sarmatian origin. 1 man! and hes german or something. so what you are saying is that croatians themselves had no idea that they were of iraninan origin before that blumenthal came up with the idea. thats just more proof against the theory that croats are from iran. its as if i now come up with some theory that germans are originaly from egypt and built the pyramids. me , just 1 man. and im sure that that theory would be very attractive toi germans if i came out with it 4oo years ago. and as for the red white and blue colors of the flag. the serbs, montenergrans, and croats and other slavic republics of norhtern eastern europe have those colors. its more logical to come to the conclusion that the colors are a slavic thing rather than of iraninan culture. i realy honestly think that slavic croats mixed with the illyrians.
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Post by star on Apr 3, 2005 19:05:05 GMT 1
Theories generally start with one man and build from there. I'm not sure if Blumenthal was german. His middle name sounds slavic enough. Right now I'm reading a book called "The Early Medieval Archaeology of Croatia" by Huw M.A. Evans of the BAR international series. In it he mentions how the ancient sources only refer to the Croats in relation to some great power such as the byzantines and states "No one from the West was interested in Croatia for its own sake." That there is a slavic component is undeniable but how substantial was it? The book I mentioned does a survery of various theories. One is that the Slavs came in with the Avars during their many attacks, destroying Salona. The Byzantine Emperor then calls on the Sarmatian Croats to come in and in due course they destroy the Avars by inciting an uprising of Slavs against them. They then unite the Slavs and Illyrians under their name. Thats just one of the theories, there a whole slew of them. But interestingly, even the most ardent slavicists admit the the name of Croatian (Hrvati) is undoubtebly of Iranian origin, including my prof, who is Ukrainian btw. He suggests the Croats were originally an Indo-Aryan tribe which became slavicized during their migration westward through Slav lands, intermarrying with them and picking up their language. Your comment about the flags of other nations is off the mark. That's not the point I was making. I was talking about the identification of White Croatia and Red Croatia which was an old Iranian method of labelling tribes according to geographic location.
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Post by valiant on Apr 4, 2005 22:13:13 GMT 1
the name hrvat does sound sort of like herat in afghanistan. but the word hrvat also means(in croatian) ...to wrestle. there are many croatian slavic words that end in at. also looking at peoples names and place names in croatia..they are mostly slavic and the rest have clues to maybe originating from ancient illyrian names. there is so little evidence that links croats to iran that its amazing that the theory has become so popular .
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Post by Ribaric on Apr 5, 2005 0:02:38 GMT 1
I bet there's Irish in there somewhere.
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Post by star on Apr 5, 2005 4:16:52 GMT 1
In Francis Dvornik's book "The making of Central and Eastern Europe" he says this about the Croats:
"Two other Sarmatian tribes akin to the Antes, the Croats and the Serbs, penetrated even further. The croats seem to have gathered the Slavonic tibes of Galicia, Silesia, and part of Bohemia into a sort of state, the White Croatia of Constantine Porphyrogennetos, whilst the Serbs imposed their rule on the Slavonic tribes between the Elbe and Saale rivers."
He goes on in more detail and also does a survey of various theories which I'm too lazy to type out here. Its a very interesting book if a bit dated.
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Post by valiant on Apr 6, 2005 16:51:06 GMT 1
francis dvornik is oviously croatian haha. and how and where did he get his info ? he must have made himself a time machine or something. and just to add. croatian legend has it that some brothers and sisters...i think 7 altogether led the croats into illyria. out of these 7 brothers and sisters... only one of them ..by the name of hrvat ,,,is as croatian legend has it ....is responsible for the name of hrvatska today. so linking the word hrvat to iran ..even if it is true , which i doubt...is only 1 name out of the 7 . the rest were names like "uga, buga, muhlo " etc... sound extremely tribal slavic . reading books about croatian history to me is very funny. its all about making money. i mean. every croatian house wouldnt be croatian without a history book that proves that we arent yugoslavs. and even much much better...that we came from iran and not that long ago either. relatively speaking. we arent that slavic anyway. i think that croatians over particularly those early centuries mixed with the illyrians. and today we have a very mixed slavic illyrian population even though the slavic element has remained dominant . and another thing...how old is the croatian name ante? relating it to a name of some sarmatian tribe would be ok if someone could prove that the name ante ...amopngst croatians themselves was in use say ...prior to 1.000 ad. ?i mean ..it could be true. but there is no evidence.,
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Post by star on Apr 6, 2005 17:40:32 GMT 1
Francis Dvornik is Czech I believe and his book is not just about Croatian history but Slavs in general. It deals mostly with the Slavs in their homeland and their migrations.
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