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Post by MartinWestby on Jul 5, 2005 10:58:11 GMT 1
I agree Culchie-lets draw a line under it. You have me at a disadvantage-I am using my full name and business address-I am recounting what the agents say to me, I am not being "very clever." I am attempting to be the honest broker in this debate- It is difficult when you use an alias and will not speak to me on the phone.Neitherwill you name your source -"a close aquaintance"-for an increasingly intimate knowledge of this development. I think you making endless unsubstantiated counterclaims and me posting hearsay from agents will get very tedious, so I will withdraw from this thread. However I repeat my invite that you welcome to telephone me whenever you wish. Also if anyone apart from us 3 is even still remotely interested in this development and wants more information-email me and I will give you the agents email address., and you can make your own conclusions. Perhaps the golden lining is that with this flurry of postings I will start to claw my way upto becoming a Gold Member Anna? Best Wishes Martin Westby Website www.Croatia-HolidayandHome.co.ukThe site to visit for buying property or holidaying in Croatia info@Croatia-HolidayandHome.co.uk Telephone 0871 2881978 Fax 0870 1693701 From outside the UK: Telephone 0044 1202 259155 Fax 0044 870 1693701
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Post by Ribaric on Jul 5, 2005 11:26:26 GMT 1
Guys,
The specific details are not important to the rest of us, however, the principles are. As a dodgy speaker of Hrvatski, it is a scary prospect to attempt to buy a place when (it seems to me) that so many opportunites exist to get well and truly stuffed. Furthermore, it seems the waters have plenty of sharks in them. The possibilites that culchie brings to light are invaluable, so are the points you make - but from a different perspective.
There are a few of us on these boards who are looking to relocate and we do talk privately to each other, we'd be stupid not to. So keep going you two, argue but don't fight. You've got readers.
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Post by Culchie on Jul 5, 2005 12:19:21 GMT 1
Thank You Ribaric,
I'm challenging the 'agent' type business model here in a big way.
They take no responsibility for the properties they advertise, if any problems occur, they simply shrug it off and say it is a problem with the developer.
In accordance with this feeling, I took acception to the "Buyer Beware" warning coming from a source that has the profile of written a very good book on Croatia, and would be seen as a 'leading figure' from anyone interested in Croatian Property, he has marketed his company very well, so you couldn't help but come accross his name.
These businesses are simply 'sales lead generators', they take absolutely no responsibility for the developers projects, their viability or indeed their solvency.
If the project gets into trouble with the bank .... Crash Bang Wallop.
I stand over my previous questions, as they are fact
And the worse thing about all of this, is that having brought the developers problems to the attention of the selling agents/lead generators, whatever you wish to call them, they shrug their shoulders, and continue to sell the property regardless to people who may attracted to buying property from the credible source 'the guy who wrote the book on Croatian Property'
If you are generating sales leads for a developer, then you should be able to stand over the developer and the development, and his previous history.
That is what I am asserting.
.... and Joes attempts to somehow discredit me, by his incredulous assertions about my being a property agent, simply add substance to my argument about the sales agent business, all stick up for each other, keep the buyers in the dark.
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Post by MartinWestby on Jul 5, 2005 19:15:10 GMT 1
CORRECTION OK I know I said I wasn't going to contribute to this thread anymore, but I've just had a very nice phone call from Mladen Ostro, asking me to clarify a point. The estate agent involved, mentioned him as the project's lawyer, which I duly reported. (I think this was a problem of translation) This is not the case- he has been involved with the purchase of one unit for one client in this development, he is not the Project's lawyer.I understand that is being dealt with by a law firm in Trogir. Now I would like to have my dinner. Best Wishes Martin Westby Website www.Croatia-HolidayandHome.co.ukThe site to visit for buying property or holidaying in Croatia info@Croatia-HolidayandHome.co.uk Telephone 0871 2881978 Fax 0870 1693701 From outside the UK: Telephone 0044 1202 259155 Fax 0044 870 1693701
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joe
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Post by joe on Jul 5, 2005 22:06:01 GMT 1
You are right Culchie. Agents shouldn't be in the picture. People should be left to spend hours checking paper, queuing up for hours in hot waiting rooms waiting for paperwork, negotiating with locals, driving themselves around for days to remote locations without sign posting and all would be well in the world of real estate. No “shoddy” agents lurking around, cheating people and selling unclean property. No one getting stung by the exploited innocent local land and real estate owners.
Do you own property here? 2 bedroom apartment perhaps? Of course you bought it all by yourself. Not through an agent. It’s as easy as that. Everyone should do it.
I can provide details of properties I have sold and clients who have since sent me business because they were happy with the service they paid for. The peace of mind and help they got from this service.
Can you provide us with any details?
Can you reveal any information? I would like to know who told you about this. Who is this mystery “acquaintance" of yours?
Of course, you won’t be divulging this information. Perhaps it’s a fellow agent huh?
I think you have learned a lesson. Keep people informed, but back it up. Get to the point and give as much info as you can without all the subterfuge (look it up in a dictionary).
I will be keeping a close eye on this development and if it all goes through without people getting “stuffed”, I’ll look forward to your reaction.
Comments like “PK121 requires buyers to do alot of homework on developer.” and “Oh, and I should believe your agent over what a close acquaintance has shown me?”. are not very informative. What have you been shown? Can you fax me a copy?
You have made your point now Culchie and I have made mine.
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Post by Culchie on Jul 5, 2005 23:05:22 GMT 1
You are right Culchie. Agents shouldn't be in the picture. Please show me where I said this? You are now twisting things to suit your argument. Of course agents have their role to play, but they also should be held responsible for the properties they sell. I also fail to see how you can take any view on this project, as you know nothing about it.
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joe
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Post by joe on Jul 5, 2005 23:46:39 GMT 1
I just pick up the phone and ask Mr. Westby. I'm sure he would be only too pleased to give me all information he has upon request. I don't think I'll have to ask twice either. I think he is more likely to give all information in a clear and concise way, without withholding information on his sources.
You are right, you didn't say agents shouldn't be in the picture, but it seems you are of that opinion by the way you seem to be slurring the good name of some much respected agents.
I take full 100% responsibility for properties I sell. That’s why I take the time to check and double check what I am dealing with. I still say you are right bringing any dubious properties to peoples attention, I just think you went about it the wrong way. Do you agree? More facts less subterfuge.
You still seem to dodge all questions.
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joe
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Post by joe on Jul 6, 2005 0:34:30 GMT 1
Enough.
Culchie has a point. Everyone has to be careful dealing in this country. People do get stung. Lets use this forum to make sure it happens less!
There should be a separate category for any dubious properties people should look out for.
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Post by Culchie on Jul 6, 2005 0:35:59 GMT 1
I just pick up the phone and ask Mr. Westby. I'm sure he would be only too pleased to give me all information he has upon request. I don't think I'll have to ask twice either. I think he is more likely to give all information in a clear and concise way, without withholding information on his sources. He will give his version of events. He said himself he knows nothiong of the project, but "his agent tells him ...." .... shouldn't he know the details of the project himself? You are right, you didn't say agents shouldn't be in the picture, but it seems you are of that opinion by the way you seem to be slurring the good name of some much respected agents. Some ? I don't think so I take full 100% responsibility for properties I sell. That’s why I take the time to check and double check what I am dealing with. I still say you are right bringing any dubious properties to peoples attention, I just think you went about it the wrong way. Do you agree? More facts less subterfuge. You still seem to dodge all questions. Good for you, more of your kind are needed. Are you saying you are morally responsible or legally responsible for the properties you sell....the is a big difference. I don't think I've dodged a question yet, except about your interest in my private life, which if you check your messaghe in-box, I've replied in good faith.
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joe
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Post by joe on Jul 6, 2005 0:39:06 GMT 1
Thanks, I was very curious. All I can say is sorry mum!
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Post by nikh on Dec 5, 2005 13:31:12 GMT 1
Culchie be very careful on this one and friends OF YOURS ARE THE ONES i HOLD RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS MESS they are very culpable on this one, I dont know Martin westby but I tell you this much if he knows the story he would run from this as his track record would show . He seems to genuinly try do the best he can with the information, although I agree with most of you it is not always correct or up to date. we are all adults and responsible for ourselves so why do we seem so intent on blaming eveyone else for not digging deep enough and beleiving the frst story we are told. If you are investing in a foregin Country do you own research do not trust what you are told dig deeper and be responsible for yourselves. Ps would you buy a property at home without a solicitor survey possibly an engineer and architect. Would you not expect to inspect the paperwork yourself , who says nyone checked it ?why would you leave it in the hands of people you dont know with no qualifications that are getting paid by the developer, come on guys wake up BUYER BEWARE AND THE DEVIL YOU KNOW IS NOT ALWAYS BEST.
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Post by nikh on Dec 5, 2005 15:10:08 GMT 1
I just got a message from Culchie and seem to have upset him so for clarity to all I am not implicating him, just the agent he knows, this is not a n attack on him. He is correct about this project to a degree, I am one of those being bitten as we speak. V complicated too difficult to explain on this forum and likel to end up in hot legal water.Its not over. I repeat buyer beware especially of your own. Apologies to Culchie didnt mean to point a finger at you, just ant to scream this one out loud and having difficulty expressing without causing myself more trouble. If Mr westby knows the story Im sure he will run and the Lawyer he mentioned is not best placed to give the full story on this one. I would like to know who his agent is on this one. What I wil say is check building permits contsrtuction permits and all stamps related to the project that was applied for then check the permission granted is the permission for the project applied for and do not pay with out getting a usage permit. Then check it is the real thing.Lawyers dont generally check unless asked to and inf act assume the agent has done it, refer back to culchies points about agents before and culpability.Make sure your rights are registered your lawyer can do this for you, go direct to them on this one and ask them for all paperwork . Once again culchie is right do not use the same lawyer as agent and if you do go direct to lawyer not throught the agent . The way I see it if the developer is paying an agent to sell and will probably build more for agent to sell where does the interest lie? Get an architect get an engineer and then sue the ass of the agent and the lawyer that didnt look afeter your interests. Great awyer in Zagreb young and ballsy looking forward to taking this one on and that includes the lawyers, a real find.In the meantime stay away from this project. And fro Gods sake everyone take responsibility for yourselves I screwed up on this one but I tell you this much I will not lose, so to the main players if your reading this one when its finished im coming after you . By the way the mortgage issue on this one is not all lots more and runs alot deeper.
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croam
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Post by croam on Dec 5, 2005 17:43:17 GMT 1
please post your registration numbers/credentials.
we are fighting a war against corruption in croatia. we have to look good for the EU.
Thanks in advance!
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Post by nikh on Dec 5, 2005 18:44:20 GMT 1
Not good at this so thought I would merge sent to pm dont know if it went, in response to the doges then tried it on the legitimate threead and its gone Is it a cross pollination kind of thing , some dog and a leggy bird get together? enlighten me please. Been trying to track you like a dog over all the threads but cant keep up with myself got a headache now, need to lie down. Me not being a professional tracker and all that!!!! Felt the love from your last msg., appreciate it
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Post by irac on Dec 7, 2005 20:37:43 GMT 1
whoever this nkh is, mysterious sort that they are, it is a good guide if the respective agent is registered with the local chamber of commerce (regardless of nationality) and if foreign registered with their embassy, on a working visa in the country and what can help more if they have their own properties. Sure good working relationships with "rival" agencies is good and proper, but there are agencies who just pick up properties off local agencies, whack on a big lump and then pass it off as first hand. Profit has to be made, it's business, but not rip off prices that make a mockery of the thing, it's not kids clothes! www.hiberno-knin.com
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