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Post by Barba Jere on Feb 26, 2005 22:36:27 GMT 1
Nobody said you are paranoid ... But I don't think UK need Serbian diplomacy to stand against Croatia. Simply it stands and standed against Croatia since Croatia declared independence. Draskovic is nationalistic idiot and Tadic is closely following ... They speak nonsensens for their internal political use. They waited for 10 years because since now we never showed so weak and idiotic on every political level as we did lattely. Of course they hate idea of Croatia exsisting, but considering new war - I don't see anybody around beeing able or willing to fight instead of them. And by the way - thanks for insults what? Hlebinac is an insult? do you know what it means?
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Post by Old Guest on Feb 26, 2005 22:44:42 GMT 1
what? Hlebinac is an insult? do you know what it means? Yes I do, and I do understand meaning of "context" (not "naive" painter, and also - not located in willage Hlebine). But, I am not some "arguing material", so skip me please. Thanks
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Post by irac on Feb 26, 2005 22:45:09 GMT 1
Barba, you slated old guest and I for being silly and naieve, don't you think there's a better way to state your point? I think that's what old guest means. If you need to resort to putting peoples undertanding or intelligence in doubt, then it makes your own point weaker.
Any moves from these in exile are only meaningless posturing, as old guest said and I noted above, nobody needs a new fight, those who have any sort of heart know that all sides were losers and the only winners are those in government and those who creamed the war and post war millions off.
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Post by Barba Jere on Feb 26, 2005 23:10:58 GMT 1
if silly and naive is insults for you 2 than please accept my appology
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Post by Old Guest on Feb 26, 2005 23:37:56 GMT 1
if silly and naive is insults for you 2 than please accept my appology I understand that people here find it very difficult to disgree ... And best way for them for preventing "I dissagreed with myself latter" situation, is - start insulting and offending without any reason (or underestimating, in more polite cases). But then, where is joy of debate ? I wasn't "commenting your comment". I just said, and I still think that rediculous "goverment is overcontextualisation won't change anything on it's political insignificance. Looking Draskovic and Tadic as "serious threats", same as this self proclaimed - "goverment in exsile" will probably just help our stupid goverment to find new bunch excuses and drag us away from real issues. Blaming Serbia for not starting negotiations with EU must sounds more acceptable then blaming our own goverment and/or thiefs in ears of our polititians and many medias under their strong influence. Especialy with all this nationalistic frustrations purpously collected lattely. Yes, we can blame Serbia and Serbs for everything. I bet they are capable for manufacturing bunch of "Poisoned by nationalism, hate, and political irationalism" material for us to use. But then - we just proved that we really belong to same "West Balcans" political pot. If we are so unable to understand single political message from west in it's "as it is said" sontext, but at same time we understand even subcontext of some "political circus" noted from Serbia. This is just my oppinion. Appologie accepted
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Post by barba Jere on Feb 26, 2005 23:57:24 GMT 1
I understand that people here find it very difficult to disgree ... And best way for them for preventing "I dissagreed with myself latter" situation, is - start insulting and offending without any reason (or underestimating, in more polite cases). But then, where is joy of debate ? I wasn't "commenting your comment". I just said, and I still think that rediculous "goverment is overcontextualisation won't change anything on it's political insignificance. Looking Draskovic and Tadic as "serious threats", same as this self proclaimed - "goverment in exsile" will probably just help our stupid goverment to find new bunch excuses and drag us away from real issues. Blaming Serbia for not starting negotiations with EU must sounds more acceptable then blaming our own goverment and/or thiefs in ears of our polititians and many medias under their strong influence. Especialy with all this nationalistic frustrations purpously collected lattely. Yes, we can blame Serbia and Serbs for everything. I bet they are capable for manufacturing bunch of "Poisoned by nationalism, hate, and political irationalism" material for us to use. But then - we just proved that we really belong to same "West Balcans" political pot. If we are so unable to understand single political message from west in it's "as it is said" sontext, but at same time we understand even subcontext of some "political circus" noted from Serbia. This is just my oppinion. Appologie accepted Im sure there is space for improvement but on the other hand we can not blame the government for everything can we? Im sorry but I was in Croatia in 1990 and I remeber that it all starded very simmilar like this. Same claims. RSK a Repubic. Those who have been burned once blow even on cold. I see this a provocation and I do not think that is a accident its happening at this momment when Croatia is the weakest. How come they didnt do it straight after Oluja? That would be more understanable timing. Or when Tudjman was dead? Now when Serbs are actually returning and some of their property is being reconstructed Slowly but its happening, Now when one of those councillors Stanimirovic is a COALITION partner with HDZ now those people are forming this government. Im sorry but i do not want to underestimate them and their intentions.
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Post by My 2 cents on Feb 27, 2005 6:14:02 GMT 1
I'm with you barba jere! Like my father always told me, u cant trust a serb even when he is 6ft under.
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Post by irac on Feb 27, 2005 11:36:21 GMT 1
not a very nice sentiment I think you'd agree 2cents, but then again, I've heard the same thing said back about Croats by orthodox people in Croatia and by Muslims in Bosnia about Serbs and Croats, so I guess it's done the rounds.
Whatever reason they've had for making the statements and government in exile, it's never going to fly, again I repeat (I hate repeating msyelf but this time it's necessary) there's no support for an independent state within Croatia, no Croatians support it. The EU certainly doesn't support it, only the settlement of issues relating to the conflict there, which includes property and entitlements, and also there is a clause about demilitarisation. While the latter is taking place and causing a lot of bother, it makes sense to have a professional accountable strong standing army, for the first two issues, there's quite a ways to go.
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Post by irac on Feb 27, 2005 11:38:48 GMT 1
Oh, and thanks for the apology Barba, for whatever it's worth ;D
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Post by Mirko1 on Feb 27, 2005 12:18:09 GMT 1
I'm with you barba jere! Like my father always told me, u cant trust a serb even when he is 6ft under. This is cr*p! It is our faulut that we Croats are STUPID, and allow to be humiliated. If we would kick back, this nonsense would not happend. As a first step, take away Croatian documents from all Serbs attending this meeting in Belgrade (apparently almost half of them have CRO passports itd).
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Post by irac on Feb 27, 2005 12:32:35 GMT 1
Mirko, I agree with you in a sense (especially if I think of Northern Ireland), let them put up or shut up. Either they want to be Croatian or they want to go live in Serbia. In Croatia they have the chance of a far brighter future and they have religious freedom and security. Plus the extremists who want to go around discriminating against everybody will be pushed to the margins and then the country can get on with making a place to be proud of. The North reference is one that emerged a few years ago when London were hinting at complete indepence for the 6 counties, "Nationalists" and "Loyalists" objected alike, and these two wonderful groups of true and honest peoples were given the following options in a TV debate: for the Nationalists, if you want to be in a Republic so much, and no longer live under London rule, then if you don't want to share a country with the other group, come to the Republic and you'll have passports and live there. For loyalists, same thing, go to Britain or live in your own state. Both groups accused the questioneers (a Catholic and an Anglican clergymen from the North) of being traitors and sell outs. It seems that some will never be happy, but at least we know in Croatia that there is no appetite for further conflict, and those living here are happy and those stupid few who agitate on either side are doing so to gain fame or position of money.
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Post by Barba Jere on Feb 27, 2005 12:45:02 GMT 1
This is cr*p! It is our faulut that we Croats are STUPID, and allow to be humiliated. If we would kick back, this nonsense would not happend. As a first step, take away Croatian documents from all Serbs attending this meeting in Belgrade (apparently almost half of them have CRO passports itd). you can not take away citisenship just like that. Such option does not exist in the law. Only if you ask yourself for that. Here read the law (its in CRO) www.mup.hr/zakoni/z2.html
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Post by Barba Jere on Feb 27, 2005 12:56:56 GMT 1
im just intrigued by timing. 20 days before 17th march and accession talks.
Also dont forget that last week montenegro requested disolving of the SiCG union in to 2 separate states.
and just few days after Tadić said that CRO should wait for Serbia to join EU together.
Obviously they think if CRO joins soon they will be put aside for long years and thay see Croatia as the force to help them get in to EU.
Irac please dont come up with some few petty criminals as a reason since people deciding on this think about geostrategic interests and from regional aspects and not about few criminals or people fixing football games.World is full of them.
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Post by irac on Feb 27, 2005 14:08:59 GMT 1
Barba, you said that the Croatian mafia was nothing to the Romanian etc, but sadly they are as bad as any other mob who decide that they want to make one group of lives miserbale, and it's not just a few peopel fixing football matches, when it comes to people trafficking and especially exploitation of sex workers ther Croatian mafia, along with that from Nigeria, are in the top 5 in Europe, according to Interpol and the various Human Rights Watchdogs, including those media watchers from Index on Censorship.
THe EU knows that Croatia et al are a long way from being the acceptable face of "new Europe", but it is being manipulated for many ends. Zagreb use the gotovina issue to divert attention from the major problems in the country and the fact that on economic critiera Croatia is behind Bulgaria; and from Europe if they can justify not letting Croatia in then they can further delay Turkey. While some might think of a balkans bloc and a single group entering (ie ex-Yugo) no one in the EU would even consider such a move as they know that once countries enter there are no borders anyway, so what is the problem? The free movement of people and to a slightly lesser degree goods, in the EU would mean that the militarisitc nature of society in this area will have to be toned down and a security force from other EU states be put on permanent placement in the region.
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Post by Mirko1 on Feb 27, 2005 15:03:31 GMT 1
you can not take away citisenship just like that. Such option does not exist in the law. Only if you ask yourself for that. Here read the law (its in CRO) www.mup.hr/zakoni/z2.htmlThen the law should be changed! The UK has cancelled Guantanamo prisoners' passports, although they have done nothing against the UK.
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