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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Mar 13, 2005 22:59:32 GMT 1
As a croatian serb abroad i agree with many of the views shared here.
Croatia has a new future, a future which serbs can politically help build rather than try to emulate the failed Krajina state.
By supporting Croatia's plans to enter the EU, I hope both Croatians and Croatian Serbs can live together in peace and harmony. I am very dissapointed to see the creation of this "in exile" government and my hope is that it is never supported by an Serbian government.
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Post by quest89 on Mar 14, 2005 0:16:04 GMT 1
This "government" has to be ignored, they are irrelevant for the future of Croatia. The Serbs in Croatia have their political representatives which they elected, a may add good politicians, especially Milorad Pupovac, who partcipate in the cro government.
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Post by irac on Mar 15, 2005 22:27:05 GMT 1
The vast majority of orthodox believers in Croaita are working as hard, or harder, than others to make teh country a truly good place to love. There are extremists on both sides and so long as the intelligent and good among us support the idea of building for a future worth having, then Croatia will act as a stabilising force on the countries around it.
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Post by faux pas on Mar 16, 2005 1:37:28 GMT 1
"There are extremists on both sides"
Please point to a group of "extremists" in Croatia harbouring "Greater Croatia" aspirations towards Serbia. You'll find none. So your attempt to justify this move on part of the Serbian extremists is totally futile. However, same like you, I deeply respect anyone, including the ortotodox believers that you mention, who work on behalf of Croatia's well-being.
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Mar 16, 2005 1:53:09 GMT 1
In response to the previous posted response, Croatian extremists do not harbour aspirations towards Serbia but rather parts of Bosnia, this can have the same level of de-stabilisation in the region as Extremist Serbs with aspirations on Croatia and Bosnia - I must add i do not condone either extremist.
My genuine belief is that if Croatian Serbs such as Milorad Pupovac work in the best interests of the future of Croatia we will see Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Croats work in the same way with Bosnian Muslims for the future of Bosnia.
The region needs a country that can show true reconciliation and lead into Europe, their was once a time when the living standards within Croatia (during Yugoslavia) far exceeded those of countries such as Poland, Czech Republic (then Czechoslovakia) and Hungary. Today we see this countries moving forward in Europe with us behind and i feel Croatia needs to regain its rightful place in Europe as a dynamic, creative and ambitious country.
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Post by faux pas on Mar 16, 2005 2:37:53 GMT 1
That's another level of comparision- yet again it doesn't hold: Serbia is not only harbouring Greater-Serbia aspirations towards Bosnia too, it has already grabbed 49% of Bosnia! Non-Serbs still can't return in that region held by the Serbs in Bosnia.
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Post by quest on Mar 16, 2005 4:11:55 GMT 1
The vast majority of orthodox believers in Croaita are working as hard, or harder, than others to make teh country a truly good place to love. There are extremists on both sides and so long as the intelligent and good among us support the idea of building for a future worth having, then Croatia will act as a stabilising force on the countries around it. Irishman, as I see you always talk about Croatians of orthodox faith, are you sure the Serbs in Croatia want to define themselves like that? Unfortunately I don't think they want. I would like to hear some first hand experience from Knin.
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Post by irac on Mar 16, 2005 9:00:02 GMT 1
quest, instead of sitting at the pc, you shoujld go visit Knin, and the surrounding areas, and talk to those who lived through the nightmare and are trying to rebuild. And please, if those I know who are of orthodox faith thought or called themselves differently,. then wold I not say it? I think it's time to stop labelling people in order to further political gains, and further inflating conflict.
There are Croatian extremists faux pas, try living here for a while to see them! Thankfully history will eradicate them and the country can evolve into the mature and forward looking state it deserves to be.
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 16, 2005 10:12:05 GMT 1
quest, instead of sitting at the pc, you shoujld go visit Knin, and the surrounding areas, and talk to those who lived through the nightmare and are trying to rebuild. And please, if those I know who are of orthodox faith thought or called themselves differently,. then wold I not say it? I think it's time to stop labelling people in order to further political gains, and further inflating conflict. There are Croatian extremists faux pas, try living here for a while to see them! Thankfully history will eradicate them and the country can evolve into the mature and forward looking state it deserves to be. I think that rational option will be to use Croatia comeing closer to EU, to establish trust between Croats and Serbs. And use "moment" for filling "time gap" and use positive energy that collected on "both sides" considering EU and Croatias future. Of course both nationalists and extremist will try to prevent this. But if politics use signals which are comeing from Croatian Serbs (especialy seeing how they reacted on "goverment in exsile" situation), it can integrate them in political processes and achieve great advance in creation of serious and secured civile society. I think now is execellent moment. But at same time, now everything can unfortunately - fail.
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Post by irac on Mar 16, 2005 13:16:46 GMT 1
Old guest, no one could have said it better, there are those who will try use this time to create further problems, but this is an opportunity to build a nation everyone can be proud of. I mean, take a look at sports, do peple shout for the "Croatian" Dado Prso, or the "Croatian-Serb" Prso? Why should there be a difference, he's a man, as are all those living, except the women , in Croatia.
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Mar 16, 2005 14:32:31 GMT 1
I would very much agree with the viewpoints of Irac and Old Guest. Croatian Serbs are not ashamed or concerned about being called "Orthodox", although I would not worry about the future if serbs were known as Orthodox Croats (As Strossmayer once advocated).
I would argue that these are all aspects that will naturally be resolved over time, the burning issue at this moment in time to address any racism or discrimination along ethnic lines. At present, this is still inevitable to an extent due to the war, my concerns are the comments of people such as Faux Pas who argues that one group is more extreme than another.
Regardless of who is more extreme, both are terrible and my worry is that Croatians will struggle to accept that as well as being victims they were also to blame for attrocities and as such just because one group of extremists are worse this does not vindicate the other group.
The only way true reconcilliation can take place is if we all accept blame and start again, rather than arguing who is worse and playing "cowboys and indians" in this respect. To support this i am also of the viewpoint that every indicted criminal Gotovina, Mladic, Karadzic should all be handed over.
I presume by Irac's comments, you are in Knin?, or have been, i myself have not been for five years (although i am free to visit anytime), how is the ethnic balance in the town? (In terms of climate?).
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Post by irac on Mar 16, 2005 14:44:48 GMT 1
I'm in Knin croserbabroad, and you know, it's odd in the town. there's a very definite hierarchy, or system. At the top are those favoured by HDZ or old Commies brought in to run the place. Then you've the native catholics, then those who moved from other parts of Croatia, and then yo've got the originial orthodox population, and at the bottom are the "ethnic Croats" who landed in from elsewhere in former YU. It's horrible in some ways, as these people are branded pigs and less than human, and this is by those who share their religion! But the town is moving well, it's beginning to find it's feet, and in 10 years it'll be a whole new generation running the place!
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Mar 18, 2005 13:22:30 GMT 1
That is what i have heard about the current situation in Knin. I know a lot of the ethnic Croats cant go back to their own homes in Bosnia because the Serbs wont let them back but without them going back the Croatian Serbs cant go home because a lot of the ethnic Croats occupy their houses.
it simply amazes me that it is now almost ten years since the war ended and people still cant go back to their own homes! - It is a vicious circle.
When are these people going to realise that an ethnically pure country is a ridiculous proposition in its own right. To have a fully functioning, democratic country that is multi-ethnic is a model they should all be aspiring towards.
I feel sad for the poor people of the former Yugoslavia - Croats, Serbs, Bosnians because they have been nothing more than pieces in an enormous game of chess!
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 18, 2005 13:37:46 GMT 1
I guess they all need education and lot of good examples.
New generation's must be raised on good examples, and so far all they can see is - sophisticated "butchers" or uneducated but loud "tribe members" as examples for "easy" success and life-prosperity.
So far "correct etnicity" and deindividualisation was "mutual" measure for everything.
But, I see "evil cirle" slowly getting breaked, by small small steps, and I still hope things will start to roll much quicker in better direction.
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Post by Franchise Croatia on Mar 18, 2005 14:18:19 GMT 1
Being from a place close to Knin, yes the Knin people are mostly branded dumb bosnians. It is also evident that the serbs are returning but mostly the older generation. Ahhh couldn't be bothered to login.
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