neda
Junior Member
Posts: 10
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Post by neda on Mar 9, 2005 19:40:50 GMT 1
Great debate chaps!
I hope this isn't wishful thinking, but this row over the EU has all the hallmarks of a huge political poker game. And from what I can see, both sides have an interest in not losing. So don't be surprised if a good old compromise isn't concocted before the March 17 deadline, something along the lines of we, the EU, will start accession talks with you, Croatia, now. But if you don't give up your man by, say, Christmas, then talks stop and won't start again until we get him. That gets Croatia hooked, gives them time for a dignified handover and avoids the EU being accused of toppling the Croatian government and possibly letting distabilising, isolationist right-wing nationalists take over.
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Post by star on Mar 9, 2005 19:49:53 GMT 1
I'm still not convinced Gotovina is even in Croatia. MI6 agents in croatia have been scouring the country looking for him for months now without any luck.
I think if it were really in Mesic's power to hand over Gotovina he would have done it a long time ago without any hesitation, especially since his re-election. His power is secure and he could afford to take a popularity hit.
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Post by Barba Jere on Mar 9, 2005 20:04:25 GMT 1
if they are so sure he is in CRO why dont they say where is he?
Croatia is not big. He can not run from place to place just llike that.
If I was him and trying to hide Croatia would be last place to be.
He is ex Legioner so a mantion in a ex French colonz in Asia or Africa where nobody heard of Croatia would be perfect not Croatia where man enjozs status of a film star and where his posters are allover so a argument of not reckognising him fails immideately
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Post by star on Mar 9, 2005 20:18:26 GMT 1
Exactly. In Croatia he is larger than life and easily recognizable. When I was there a couple years ago there were posters of him everywhere. Somebody would have ratted him out a long time ago.
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Post by EMIZ on Mar 9, 2005 20:23:47 GMT 1
Look; it is quite simple mi6 and mi5 could easily find him, there is no doubt about it. You're missing the point; this is a test of Croatia's willingness and ability to conform.
If Croatia will not hand him over; then why should the EU trust them? That is they angle the EU is taking; the recourses and network countries have is immense; if Croatia really wanted to conform they would have handed Gotovina over.
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Post by star on Mar 9, 2005 20:40:36 GMT 1
EMIZ that's a load of nonsense. Mesic had been trying to get Gotovina without any luck. He even ordered HTV to air a documentary by Serbian propagandist Bozidar Knezevic called "oluja nad krajinom" in order to, in Carla Del Ponte's words, "create an atmosphere condusive to his capture".
Mesic is desperate to create a legacy for himself and that legacy was supposed to be him being the president who led Croatia into the EU. And he wouldn't let someone like Gotovina stop him if he could help it.
Even the Hungarian representative to the EU said Britain should prove Gotovina is still in Croatia before they block negotiations.
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Post by EMIZ on Mar 9, 2005 20:49:22 GMT 1
Ignorance is bliss; your life must be blissful.
If you actually believe anything that comes out of a politicians mouth; you have lost a grip on reality.
As I also stated it is a test of their competence, I had the pleasure of working in the home office in England; trust me if they wanted to find him, they would.
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Post by star on Mar 9, 2005 21:10:05 GMT 1
I never quoted anything from Mesic, just facts. HTV is under his control and they aired a Serbian propaganda film just to appease the EU. Mesic didn't mind taking the popularity hit in doing so because he's desperate to get into the EU. Why would he be hesitant to hand over Gotovina then if he could? Mirko Norac was just a popular as Gotovina, his posters were also plastered everywhere, but they had no problem sending him to the hague. At least you admit Britain is not interested in finding Gotovina. He's just a convenient excuse to keep Croatia from joining the EU until the other republics are ready. Britain and France have made it no secret that they want the balkans to enter as a package, not individually. The common feeling among croatians now is that even if Gotovina were handed over tomorrow, another barrier would be thrown up in his place. Most croats I talk to say they wouldn't mind if Gotovina were handed over if it would lead to EU integration but they no longer feel that would be the case. That's probably why support for the EU has reached record lows.
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Post by EMIZ on Mar 9, 2005 21:17:36 GMT 1
Of course the uk couldn't care less about Gotovina; it is all games, and the big test is Bosnia. The point is if you can't even get past this smaller issue, you have no chance when the bigger issues, corruption, economy and ultimately Bosnia need to be addressed. I want Croatian to join the EU, but I understand why many British politicians don’t; many economic migrants will leave Croatia for the Uk, and we can talk about how much Croats hate the UK; it will happen, also the UK will be one of the few countries paying for Croatia in its early years.
As for the politicians, they don't want the EU; that is why they won’t hand Gotovina over, they are making far too much money now stealing from the Croatian people.
They just say whatever the people want to hear, but actually do nothing, this keeps them in their positions of ultimate power and abuse for longer.
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 9, 2005 21:45:13 GMT 1
Great debate chaps! I hope this isn't wishful thinking, but this row over the EU has all the hallmarks of a huge political poker game. And from what I can see, both sides have an interest in not losing. So don't be surprised if a good old compromise isn't concocted before the March 17 deadline, something along the lines of we, the EU, will start accession talks with you, Croatia, now. But if you don't give up your man by, say, Christmas, then talks stop and won't start again until we get him. That gets Croatia hooked, gives them time for a dignified handover and avoids the EU being accused of toppling the Croatian government and possibly letting distabilising, isolationist right-wing nationalists take over. Well Neda, "carrot" times has passed. Only EU's alie left here are those same corrupted polititians. Just look charts for public support on Croatia entering EU. Looking at them just raises question - "What negotations, and with who ?" Scenarious are various, and so far none is even close to "... and since after, they lived in happyness until the end of their lifes ...". Process of desintegration in region already started, and it will reflect much wider region very soon. Only one who can "hit the break, before it becomes too latte" is USA (and I hope they will). So far, Croatia can only concentrate on it's closer region, which will close as "oil tank" in metter of months after negotiation process get canceled or delayed. And this time unlike 15 years ago (when things imploded) they will probably explode much wider then any of us expect (remember that Balcans is just "temporary frozen" and not too defined). I am really hoping that I am 100 percent wrong, and all this indeed is just simple "poker game", determination of UK and USA to deal with each and every "war criminal" on face of the Earth, until the last breath of last Croatian, under any circustances and in any case, and nothing else. I would also latter try to find reasons for this situation under my bed, so EMIZ don't need to bother answering.
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Post by EMIZ on Mar 9, 2005 21:47:41 GMT 1
Your bed doesn't have the answer; it will lie to you, only I speak the truth. Your bed wants to keep your poor; so you can't afford a new one.
Viva Le revolution
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 9, 2005 21:51:57 GMT 1
Your bed doesn't have the answer; it will lie to you, only I speak the truth. Your bed wants to keep your poor; so you can't afford a new one. Viva Le revolution Drink less
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Post by EMIZ on Mar 9, 2005 21:56:12 GMT 1
I'm not drinking at all You said something about your bed that I didn't really understand, maybe your bed is magic a gypsy bed.
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 9, 2005 21:59:40 GMT 1
I'm not drinking at all You said something about your bed that I didn't really understand, maybe your bed is magic a gypsy bed. Maybe you should avoid communication with me.
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Post by Miro on Mar 9, 2005 22:13:48 GMT 1
Old guest I am sure what you have to say is very interesting but by the time it is written in English it doesn't often make any sense.
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