Croatia Between Aggression and Peace

[CroatianSerbAbroad]

I am dissapointed to read the post by GS - why should i remove the Croatian part from my name?.

I shall provide some personal insight into this area - i am not ashamed of my Croatian roots, regardless of this war the one thing i have learned is that many Croatian Serbs share similar traits to Croatians native to that country. We had very good Croatian friends and as people in general i believe they are good-hearted and amongst the friendliest people i have ever met.

The other realisation is that Serbs differ enormously from region to region, i can far more relate with native Croatians that i can with Bosnian Serbs or Serbians. Even our dialect is more similar to Croatian than Serbian with the use of words such as "cruh".

It dissapoints me that people feel i should remove the Croatian element, it is not something i am ashamed of. I truly hope the day will come when Croatian Serbs realise that our future lies within Croatia, working together with Croats rather than against them.

[Girl from Zagreb]

CroatianSerbAbroad,

I'm not sure if I understood GS well, but it sounded to me like he/she didn't think your attitudes represent Croatian best interest - then again I might be mistaken.

Anyway, there are Croats who appreciate such attitude - generaly we are still too sensitive. There are lot of Croats who suffered unbelivably in the war, and not enough time passed by for all the wounds to heal.

If more Croatian Serbs shared your point of view 15 years ago, war in Croatia would probably never happen. Nikola Tesla, famous Croatian Serb used to say that he was equaly proud of his Serbian routs as of his Croatian homeland. I, as a Croatian, appreciate your point of view. And there are lot of other people in Croatia who appreciate it as well. So don't feel too dissaponted.

[steve peraic]

ribarac, i agree kuwait/iraq is not yugoslavia, however my point was that yugoslavia was a recent geo-political creation, so to are the middle eastern countries, eg israel though having a history that stretches back a thousand years or more is almost unsustainable as a modern political entity and this is because it is a new political entity being foisted on the local peoples by a western dominated UN. As soon as the west pokes its nose into affairs that really they have no right to they make a hash of it so too in yugoslavia....it takes hundreds of years of natural evolution to create a true nation state, the americans and brits seem to think they can impose their will in ways that history should teach us can not be done, yugoslavia should never have existed it was a tragedy for all the peoples involved. I have nothing against serbs per se, only when they try to burn down my house. I even think that there is an argument for a loose confederation of autonomous states and that that may benefit all the peoples of former yugoslavia. On another point... the fabric of life itself is crumbling in the west, crime rates are soaring as is the cost of education and health care to the point that they are approaching unsustainability, certainly here in the UK. yes there is money about but also more homelessnes and abject poverty than in croatia, the west has sold out to mammon and is now reaping the rewards... would croatia be better off in the EU... I am not at all sure. yes we would get financial help but we may well lose our souls in the process. Someone once said that any one wanting to be a politician should automaticaly be excluded fron the possibility of becoming one. And Marx stated all wars are economic wars.. I think he got that one right..... the west doesnt need apologists it needs some moral backbone

[CroatianSerbAbroad]

Thanks Girl from Zagreb.

My comments and beliefs are always aimed at the best interests of Croatia as a country, more so than at ethic group such as Serbs or Croats.

I can appreciate that many Croats and Serbs have suffered, in order to progress the country forward we must both learn from these mistakes rather than dwell on them.

Strossmayer once said that Croatian Serbs will one day be identified as Orthodox Croatians and i for one am not against this view.

I think the region needs time to heal wounds but we must all realise that in order to move forward we are not all born evil or despising the other, we have shown that we can live together and will again in the future.

[EMIZ]

Croatianserbabroad, although I haven't read all of your posts what I have read has been informed sensitive and fair.

Take no notice; some people just can't believe that there is any truth other than the Croat truth.

[Ugursuz]

I understand your views about Gotovina being a hero and freeing up "occupied" lands. This was an awful situation for the population of both sides who did the bulk of the suffering. However, killing unarmed people people is genocide - whoever does it. I don't know if Gotovina is guilty but the EU say there is enough evidence that he must answer the charge.

I came across this board from something what could be called a 'croatian patriotic forum' and must admit that after reading this topic I came to the conclusion that the only croatian problem is a piss-poor propaganda machine. The quote from one of the posts (see above) is one of those that most efficiently sum up discussion here.
Everybody wants to express his/hers opinion though nobody really knows - nothing (if Gotovina is guilty, EU says this or that though EU says nothing etc etc...)

I must admit those opinions that correlate with official british positions regarding Croatia irritate me the most. It is impossible for british general public to have reasonably balanced opinion on Croatia because they are in the middle of the propaganda machine that is trying to sort out the world politics according to its schemes for centuries. Some parts of croatian history in which british government was most intimately involved received unprecedented secrecy cover for another 30 years (after initial 30 years expired). I find british position on Croatia despicable. It is very difficult to attack their position because the best way of attacking an enemy is to wrap the attack in the flag of moral virtue and that is what GB is best at doing.
I expect that the answer to this will be that british position is right because it is in accordance with international law.
I will be more than happy to submit here a few examples of recent opinions expressed by british officials on Croatia
which can illustrate my position.

And indeed, I would introduce visas for british subjects wishing to come to Croatia. We could at least earn some money for it. Until very recently, even croatian diplomats had to submit passports for a visa to be stamped into it. This tipical colonial procedure of beating someone into submission by treating him/him poorly is best fought against by the same manners.

One example: does anyone know here who are the only western citizens who HAVE TO do the driving exam in Oman? Only british citizens have to do that. Why? Well, because omani minister was once in London and got fined by a bobby for parking in a wrong place.
Do you think that british subjects don't go to Oman because they cannot drive? No, they go to Oman, they do the exam and then they drive. This is what can be done in a country that is the most loyal british agent in the MIddle East.
In other words, Crotia is treated by GB as it is exactly because of totally opposite behaviour. That's very rough opinion but I can elaborate easily.

[CroatianSerbAbroad]

Sorry Urgusuz but the complexity of your arguement has lost me completely.

Although i can understand the situation around Gotovina, i would argue that if he was a true patriot he would turn himself over to the Hague and sacrifice himself for the good of Croatia in Europe. If he is innocent i would hope that the court finds him as such.

I would also apply the same rules to Bosnia and Serbia, no acccession to Europe Union without handing over war criminals.

I honestly feel that Croatia will one day be welcomed into Europe, by all countries including the UK. As someone who lives in the UK i would like to see the day one i mention the word Croatia without people thinking i have come from some backward, poor country.

[ZoraDawn]

Guest-CroatianSerbAbroad said:

. As someone who lives in the UK i would like to see the day one i mention the word Croatia without people thinking i have come from some backward, poor country.

I think that bugs me the most about people from the UK. and people in the USA. They think of Croatia like it is a third world country! Very ignorant and superior attitude some people from other countries have about their thoughts on Croatia. I believe people that think Croatia is a third world country are people that have never left their own country. People that tend to make stupid statements about Croatia, I have found have never experienced life outside their own homeland. It is sad for anyone to make comments about countries, when they have no experience outside their own home!

[CroatianSerbAbroad]

In the UK it is fairly split, you get the people who have been their during the days of Yugoslavia and since who always tell me what a wonderful place it is and how friendly the people are.

But then you also get the people who think it is part of the old soviet block and imagine people waiting in line for bread!

I would agree that if they went they would see quite the opposite.

[Ribaric]

Honestly folks, I don't want to irritate anyone and it is fair comment that I am subjected to propaganda - but isn't everyone? I can only make judgements from reading what I hope are responsible and even-handed sources. I do tend to trust the BBC, the Economist and the Independent. I could be unwise to do so but these provide me with information which I fit to my personal experiences of spending several weeks every year in Medjimurje. So I have a point of view. I do accept that others will have a different point of view and this will come from different experiences, but I don't think I'd be wise to say these irritate me. What does irriate me is emotionally based arguments and constant comparisons between the history of this or that country.

I'll try a couple of points. I don't think the old colonial powers wanted to impose their will, they wanted out of a situation that history had bestowed upon them. This is not good justification but there's nothing any of us can do about it - except move on and make the best of what we are all faced with. Yes, the UK has done some dispicable things in the past, but I haven't!

As for mammon, no argument from me. It's one of the reasons I am so attracted to Croatia. If Croatia had money in the way the UK does, would it be different?

Propaganda? I agree, Croatia does not sell itself well, this has always been a problem since wotsisname shot Crown Prince Ferdinand. The world sees it as a "Balkan" thing. Believe me, I am as frustrated by this as anyone but that's the way it is. If anyone mentions South Molucca then thoughts immediately go to gangs of yobbos running riot with machetes - I don't suppose it's as simple as that but they'll never live it down.

I'll accept anyone's reasoned point of view, no matter how much I may disagree.

[Mirko1]

Here is my point: how is that that the most reluctant member of the EU (UK), has the strongest objection to CRO joining the union. Can anyone explain this?

[midge]

Being the most reluctant member (seems French are not too happy with the EU either) doesn't mean they don't/can't have their opinion on whom to welcome into the family.

[AAC]

Zoradawn, I do not think most people in the US view Croatia as some third world country, at least none that I have ever met. Granted many people do not know much about Croatia but that is mostly because Americans tend to travel to the same places when they do travel. I personally think the best about Croatia. I have travelled alot but never visited Croatia, not because I do not want to but because I do not feel welcome, more of a personal thing really. At any rate I just wanted to say that most Americans do think the best about Croatia.

[EMIZ]

I can honestly say that I never thought Croatia was in the third world.






Until I visited Beli Manistir.

[Old Guest]

From my own experience I must say that US people are extremly open to other cultures. They showed big interest in Croatia and was accepting things without prejudices.

Basicaly Croatians don't travel a lot, so they create claustrophobic oppinion about what other people think about them. But since we are small nation, there is huge possibility that any Croatian can be "first Croatian" some American met, and influence his oppinion. Because in most cases Americans don't know anything about Croatia, but not because they are ignorants then just because we don't represent ourselves enough.