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Post by star on Mar 17, 2005 6:09:15 GMT 1
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Post by barba Jere on Mar 17, 2005 7:23:15 GMT 1
well from the time of those 2 UK Lords to yesterday decision of non opening accession talks it was clear that UK policy towards Croatia was never friendly.
I think Croatian Government should as soon as possible impose reciprocity concerning visa regime for UK citizens.
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Post by gavin on Mar 17, 2005 11:26:12 GMT 1
Imposing visa restrictions on the british would only make matters worse, besides you'd probably then find it impossible for Croats to go there, and lets not forget that you need their tourist money as much as you need anyone elses. Croatia is being dealt a raw deal, but i think they've been testing the attitude of the croatian people and what they're seeing is not good. In the last couple of week i saw a poll on 1 of the many talk shows .. The question was. Gotovina or EU? It was that simple, and about 80% voted gotovina !! just this morning on the radio another poll stated that the majority of croatian people didn't want to join the EU. It's a shame, because I think Croatia could be an even better place once it does join.
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Post by FranchiseCroatia on Mar 17, 2005 11:47:13 GMT 1
Gavin I recall watching the program as well. Although I'm not happy Gotovina has been indited, but that poll clearly showed us all how nationalism is slowing down our progress. In certain ways I tend to think that Del Ponte is trying to give the population here a clear message about the credibility of our government and institutions. Although we all know what the government and institutions are like, she just might be telling the population to do something about it!!!
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 17, 2005 12:08:15 GMT 1
Gavin I recall watching the program as well. Although I'm not happy Gotovina has been indited, but that poll clearly showed us all how nationalism is slowing down our progress. In certain ways I tend to think that Del Ponte is trying to give the population here a clear message about the credibility of our government and institutions. Although we all know what the government and institutions are like, she just might be telling the population to do something about it!!! Well, people doesn't like to feel as hostages of single person (as they are) without any option to do anything abou it, so they tend to act irrational. Carla Del Ponte is just releasing her own preasure and complete failure of court (especial prosecution) over Croatia. Just listen what prime-minister of Slovenia Jansa said about "no negotiations" situation. Why whould he jeaprdise his position. He could act as bigger "super-european" then any of us, and keep his back on worm instead of exposing them by saying what he really thinks. Or he also doesn't "play ball" by UK's rules ? Scaaaarrrrry ;D I think feeling "super-european" won't change anybodys possition.
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Post by EMIZ on Mar 17, 2005 12:17:28 GMT 1
Barbar are you related to Tudjman? You talk as much rubbish.
You still have it in your mind that Croatia not being allowed EU talks is the UK's fault.
Stop playing the victim.
It is the Croatian governments fault; nobody else’s. They were given very clear instructions and regardless of the details did not complete them. Do you really think anybody in the UK would care of Croatia brought in visas? Brits just wouldn’t come here, actually Germany, France and several others voted against Croatia too; lets bring in visas for them. While we are at it…lets ban tourists.
Give your head a shake young lady; you need a wake up call.
It is exactly your kind of attitude that is holding Croatia back.
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 17, 2005 12:31:53 GMT 1
Okay, I never defended our goverment too much, so I think I have small credibility to ask this. Why all countries haven't woted "against" negotiations, if they are all "united in sharing your oppion" ? In what position "voting for" put those countries, and what you think about them ?
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 17, 2005 12:35:23 GMT 1
Really emiz, I am not arguing, but I really don't understand some things.
Why would any country (and as I long 15 countries defended Croatias position) stand of side of such insignificant, poore, corrupted country with "not credible" goverment and extremly nationalistic population ?
Does this means that some now winds started to blow in EU, and we should start to worry ?
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 17, 2005 12:37:24 GMT 1
Sorry for bad typing and spelling ... I am between bed and computer, since flue got me.
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Post by Girl from Zagreb on Mar 17, 2005 17:12:29 GMT 1
This is a political game and rules are simple. In my opinion it is not even the matter of whether Gotovina is or is not at Haag yet. It is the matter of principle and holding to agreement. Our government promissed to do something and failed to do it. Letting Croatia to pass with this would put EU into possition where there could be a danger of much more serious things being neglected for future candidates. Now Sanader is playing a 10 year old stating things like "but we deserve it". The atmosphere in Sabor today was like they all just lost their favourite toy. In my opinion we DO deserve to join, but that is not the point. The point is whether there was an agreement, and did we do what we promissed to do. If I don't stick to do agreement and due dates in business, I pay penalties. So did Croatia. It does not mean that Earth will stop turning. We can be sensitive about it, but that is how real world is functioning.
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 17, 2005 17:19:09 GMT 1
This is a political game and rules are simple. In my opinion it is not even the matter of whether Gotovina is or is not at Haag yet. It is the matter of principle and holding to agreement. Our government promissed to do something and failed to do it. Letting Croatia to pass with this would put EU into possition where there could be a danger of much more serious things being neglected for future candidates. Now Sanader is playing a 10 year old stating things like "but we deserve it". The atmosphere in Sabor today was like they all just lost their favourite toy. In my opinion we DO deserve to join, but that is not the point. The point is whether there was an agreement, and did we do what we promissed to do. If I don't stick to do agreement and due dates in business, I pay penalties. So did Croatia. It does not mean that Earth will stop turning. We can be sensitive about it, but that is how real world is functioning. So countries which voted for Croatia and did't gave vote on any side are stupid (at all 18 countries), don't understand what agreement and promise is. Their oppinion doesnt count, because they also don't belong to "real world" ? Read conclusion, and you will see that there was NO DECISION about "negotiations", then "no negations" because there was no decision. Don't buy cheap propaganda and coverups. There is no "single political oppinion" and "clear game rules" in EU about this.
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 17, 2005 17:26:52 GMT 1
"A ce titre, après délibération du Conseil et en l'absence d'un commun accord, l'ouverture des négociations d'adhésion est reportée."
Po odluci vijeca, a u nedostatku konsenzusa pregovori o pridruzivanju se odgadjaju.
By decision of council, and because there was no consensus, negotiations are postponed.
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Post by Girl from Zagreb on Mar 17, 2005 17:30:31 GMT 1
Old Guest,
what I'm saying is we were not cautios enough and did not play this game well. We shouldn't have alowed to fall in this trap. Of course there would always be different political options in EU. They played a good cop -bad cop game on us. Problem is that EU played the game well and we did not. Once more, I think we, as Croatia, deserve it. Unfortunatelly for us, our politicians did not. For our sake, I hope they learned a lesson.
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 17, 2005 17:35:34 GMT 1
Old Guest, what I'm saying is we were not cautios enough and did not play this game well. We shouldn't have alowed to fall in this trap. Of course there would always be different political options in EU. They played a good cop -bad cop game on us. Problem is that EU played the game well and we did not. Once more, I think we, as Croatia, deserve it. Unfortunatelly for us, our politicians did not. For our sake, I hope they learned a lesson. There is no "bad cup - good cup" game there. They showed weakness inside decision making sytem and strong political dissagreements on "crucial thigs" - in this case Hague court cooperation. And this is important. Croatia is not important as it wasn't important before. Listen what prime-minister of Slovenia said about everything. Or he is just another Croatian nationalist ?
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Post by Old Guest on Mar 17, 2005 17:44:59 GMT 1
Sorry, "bad cop - good cop", emiz mixed my brain with those helmets and coffee cups.
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