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Post by AAC on Mar 19, 2005 3:30:00 GMT 1
I tend to agree with you Old Guest, most Americans do not know anyone from Croatia nor do they know much about its recent history, they usually ask "Is that the place where the war was, where are they located", things like that. But most Americans are excited to learn about new cultures. I would venture to say that without Hollywood or CNN most Croatians would not know too much about the US culturewise, just politically. Good to hear you find Americans to be open minded. ;D
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Mar 19, 2005 17:11:54 GMT 1
I was amazed at my recent first visit to America, i stayed a week on business and found the people very kindhearted in the main.
However, despite the various cultures i was very disturbed by the lack of focus on any events outside of the US. I had about 30 TV channels in my hotel room but for the whole week i could not find any international news that what not US related.
All i could find was local news and news concerning US forces in Iraq, I am genuinely concerned that the American population have no exposure to the what's going on in the real world or how the world really percieves their actions.
In the UK, we recieve daily news on global activities. The UK is a reluctant member of the EU, people really dont know what to make of the EU over here but i think the UK is concerned about double standards for accession into the EU. I believe that the hardline position on Croatia is designed as a platform for a hardline approach to Serbia, Bosnia and Turkey too.
Just because the UK is not saying dont worry about war criminals we will let you into the EU anyway, is that really the sort of EU anybody wants? and what sort of a precedent does that set for Serbia?
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croam
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Post by croam on Mar 19, 2005 18:48:56 GMT 1
the US runs the most advnaced system of propoganda in the world. Your absolutely right that our news media predominantly covers US interests at home and abroad from a very slanted viewpoint. I realized this while spending a month in Croatia last summer after the Abu Gharaib prison scandal broke out in Iraq. and the year before when i was in Croatia during the time they caught Saddam Huseins brothers and showed their dead bodies on TV. It was amazing to compare Euro news after i came back to the US. Its Islolationism at its finest. I'm very close to killing my television. I might shoot it. Eh, sta mozes??
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Mar 19, 2005 19:04:01 GMT 1
Well croam at least you have realised this and know it to be the case.
I found myself constantly having to log onto my PC to access BBC News website.
Sorry but i could never live in such an isolated society.
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Post by steve peraic on Mar 19, 2005 20:03:57 GMT 1
i hear what some of you are saying, people commit crimes and should be punished..... i dont agree with that mentality but i do understand.... personaly i think criminals should be educated and i dont mean indoctrinated... i mean educated... to punish someone is a very pavlovian re action... and ultimatly does no good... it creats a criminal of the punisher and undermines the whole concept of being civilised... a properly educated person does not commit crimes in a civilised environment... If 1 man commits a crime then to isolate and punish his family indeed his nation on account is a truly barbaric approach. As long as man has roamed this planet he has waged war... ugly but true.... but then to dwell on it, to keep the wounds open... to rub grit in them helps no one. The death of yugoslavia should be put behind us, a line should be drawn under the whole sorry mess, for all sides. By isolating the balkans, europe just leaves an open wound and a damaged peoples, personaly i think this is criminal and dangerous. There is a culture of litigation developing in the west, this is a disease that i hope the peoples of former yugoslavia do not inherit or help to foster. Croatia will be ok with or without the EU and to carla del ponty and all others in europe for their nay saying... oh and i do love the BBC esp. radio 4... the worlds finest broadcasting organisation, now thats something we could try to emulate in croatia
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Mar 19, 2005 20:10:50 GMT 1
I understand what you are saying Steve but a large percentage of the nation see this one man as a "hero". If you do not punish the nation then other nations will also keep their hero's and enter the EU.
With these hero's will always remain an aspect of glorification and the "good old days". We lived with the communists sweeping things under the carpet in the faint hope they would dissapear. They did not, quite the opposite they resurfaced a lot worse than the first time. We must deal with this now, face the pain, understand their was no glory in this war, only pain and suffering and then all move forward from the same point.
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Post by steve peraic on Mar 19, 2005 21:26:37 GMT 1
CSA... i cannot agree.... let myth become myth its how nations are born... only because they tried to create a nation out of nothing did that crumble (mind you the economic state of yugoslavia probably had more to do with its collapse than anything else) all nations have a history that is wrapped around heroes and villains. these were men caught in time, that time has gone and they will go too... onwards the future and d**n the past...... and someone tell the eu its being silly... come clean... please
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Post by Ugursuz on Mar 19, 2005 22:04:38 GMT 1
Old Guest: Croatians do not travel a lot so they are claustrophobic...?!?
This is what I call cluelesness....From 1960 onwards 300.000 Croatians went to work in Germany ONLY. At the same time Croatia had not more than 4.5MM people. The half of the rest of Croatians went abroad for one reason or another. And this applies until this time.
At the same time, 90% of citizens of USA HAVE NO PASSPORT. And all that 90% of citizens of US enpower american government to do all that what american government does in and with or towrds Croatia. Thank you very much.
So please, before you write something, check around in order not to write something baseless, groundless or just plain stupid.
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Post by AAC on Mar 19, 2005 22:17:03 GMT 1
Ugursuz
Can you clarify what you mean by this?
"At the same time, 90% of citizens of USA HAVE NO PASSPORT. And all that 90% of citizens of US enpower american government to do all that what american government does in and with or towrds Croatia. Thank you very much."
Just curious where you are getting your statistics.
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Post by EMIZ on Mar 19, 2005 22:28:22 GMT 1
If you only take into account the Croatians who life in Croatia, I agree that they generally do not travel very far.
Most have been to Slovenia, (passing through) Austria (shopping) and some to Italy..and older people to Serbia. Wealthy people travel but not many people are wealthy here. I was amazed when I visited Beli Manistir that 90% of the locals had never been to Hungary 6 miles away.
I have met so many people who say Croatia has the best water, the best food, the best lifestyle and never been passed Llubijana. Generally Croats holiday on the Croatian coast and do not travel much further, thankfully this is changing.
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Post by Ugursuz on Mar 19, 2005 22:36:07 GMT 1
"At the same time, 90% of citizens of USA HAVE NO PASSPORT. And all that 90% of citizens of US enpower american government to do all that what american government does in and with or towrds Croatia. Thank you very much."
1. I want to say that if 90% of citizens of one country have no passport, they don't travel abroad. If they don't travel aborad, they have no clue about the world outside of US (this is a fact mentioned even here by other people so I don't feel there is a need to elaborate on this)
2. This clueless citizens go to the elections and elect ther president (as clueless as themselves) who by the virtue of being elected in the US becomes the president of the omnipotential US. (George Bush admitted has read only one book in his own life - Sports Illustrated).
The statistics about american passport is also a known fact cited many times in the past and is no mistery or fabrication. SPend some time on Google and I am sure you'll find it.
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Post by EMIZ on Mar 19, 2005 22:48:17 GMT 1
With regards to the USA it can hardly be compared to Croatia. Usa is a vast country that has almost everything just missing the culture Great cities, great beaches, great skiing. Croatia is a very small country surrounded by lots of other countries.
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croam
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Post by croam on Mar 19, 2005 22:52:41 GMT 1
unfortunately, US citizens take less vacation time than any other industrial nation. That's becaise there is always work to be done. I agree that most people don't have passports or leave the countgry often in their lifetimes. Most Americans only speak Englih which contgributes to their isolationism. I, for on, renewed my passport for aonther ten years last year. Its always good to have in case you want to leave ;D
OrthodoxSerb: I understand why you wouldn't want to live in such an isolated culture. Too bad we have little choice as to which parents we are born to, and in what nation we are born in. I like America even though I think we could be doing a muc better job at home and in foreign affairs. I've realized that getting too upset about things I have no control ovef is a fruitless endeavor. Cheers, John
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Post by AAC on Mar 19, 2005 23:05:54 GMT 1
1. The number of US passport holders in the US in 2002 was 78% based on a population of 280 million according to The Guardian and the INS.
2. The number of passport holders in the US has been steadily rising, with a brief period in the year after 911 of little change, so that the predicted figures for US passport holders will be 25% by 2010.
3. International travel does not increase a persons ability to think logically, nor does it increase their decision making abilities.
4. Granted the US media does not provide much in the way of international news and information however, most Americans, I would say between 98 and 99%, have the ability to read and do use that ability for a much broader range of suject matter than Sports Illustrated.
5. I am not the right person for an argument in support of Bush, I did not vote for him and was very disappointed when he won, although I would have probably been just as disappointed with Kerry. I did and will continue to hope for a more diverse bank of candidates in future elections.
6. Perhaps consider using sources other than google to insult a country and its people.
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croam
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Post by croam on Mar 19, 2005 23:25:08 GMT 1
"George Bush admitted has read only one book in his own life - Sports Illustrated"
I question your source of information. I agree that George Bush isn't the most well read, or well spoken man in the world, but I don't think that statment could possibly be true. Even though he only go C's at Yale, he had to read books along the way, even to get C's. sooooo....not sure what your point was with that. Also, alot of people who bash Americans as being isolationist are isolationists themselves. Most people who are well travelled and cultured don't label hundreds of millions of people as being one way or the other...with blanket generalizations. I admit there are many stupid people in America. I've also found many stupid people everywhere. I think stupidity is an equal opportunity problem that is cross-cultural. Alot of Europeans think that they are so much better than stupid fat lazy americans. I'm sure alot of them are, but not all Americans are stupid or lazy. Alot of them are aware what's going on, and only half the voters voted for Bush, the other half for kerry(they both suck). Keep in mind that only half the US population is eligible to vote, of those that are eligible, only half of those vote. And the votes are split pretty much in half. So you had about 15% of the US population that was FOR BUSH, another 15% FOR KERRY, and everyone else didnt vote or couldn't vote. So please, democracy is a nice idea. America isn't a true democracy(one man, one vote). Which country is a true democracy? We have corporate slavery here. Its the new communism. You work your ass off and you get no where, instead of riding the clock and getting no where. If you really work your ass off though, you can make it in America, you can succeed and overcome your situation. Alot of Americans do care about the rest of the world, they are just helpless when it comes to their governments foreign policy. Kind of like how the Croats are helpless when it comes to their politicians corruption. I wish there was an easy answer instead of just more questions.
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