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Post by barba Jere on Apr 13, 2005 17:04:50 GMT 1
what a irony just few days after General Pavković dissapeared from his home in to unknown(he is biggest Serbian fish of Kosovo war wanted by Hague) Serbia got positive fiesibility study to start accession to EU.
While Croatia is given a big STOP on 17th March for well known reason Ante Gotovina.
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Post by star on Apr 13, 2005 18:57:01 GMT 1
As has been said before, Gotovina was just an excuse to delay Croatia's entry. It's been said many times that they want the Balkans to enter as a package together. That's why Mesic didn't bother handing over Gotovina since he knew it wouldn't get him into the EU anyways and would only lower his popular support.
Croatia had better face facts, the Western powers will always tie her to Serbia's tail no matter how badly they want to get away.
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Post by barba Jere on Apr 13, 2005 19:11:32 GMT 1
and just to add. Pavković had a KNOWN address just untill 3 days ago. He was even on Serbian TV studio after he was indicted.
Also to add that asylum seekers with Serbain passports in EU are 2nd noumerous asylum seekers after those with Russian passports.
If EMIZ thinks Croats are nationalists he shouild look there where Radical party is most popular party with 45 per cent support and they just equilise in the parilament 2nd WW Četniks and partisans in their rights and historical heritage. (im not talking about individulal supporters but institutionalised support of Četniks)
Only country in the world where you can vote for persons who are in Hague. Šešelj and Milošević were on ballots during last parliamentary elections.
SO talking about double standards of EU
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croam
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Post by croam on Apr 13, 2005 21:35:07 GMT 1
a month or two ago i read a tiny article in a US paper that said that Serbia's government officially came out and honored Chetnik's from WWII, AND gave them their pensions and benefits back. That's like giving Ustashe or the Nazis their pensions, but of course its ok for Serbia to do it. I hope you guys are wrong about them trying to keep Serbia and Croatia connected. I know they still call it "serbo-croatian" here in the US. I remember that ever since Croatia's independence in 91 that Croatian Americans have been very carefull to not use the old Serbo Croatian...i.e. Tisuca instead of Hiljada. If you study Croatian at one of the few Universities that offer do offer it, you will see it still called that way. Only at the U. of Toronto (in Canada) do they have a bonafide Croatian language and culture program, its all about Croatia and they teach Croatian language. This is due to ignorence not malice. Most people haven't heard of croatia thats why it has to put itself on the map and set itself apart...which should be alot easier for them to do then Serbia or Romania...you guys have the coast and the most preserved of the Roman palaces. I really hope they don't get lumped into the old Yugo group. f**k!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Apr 13, 2005 22:07:42 GMT 1
I think you are all getting carried away by this Serbia nonesense, i have just read the BBC News Internet site, this states that talks can start but Olli Rehn the EU Enlargement commisioner has said that Serbia cannot enter the EU without handing over Mladic and Karadzic, just like Croatia cant without handing over Ante Gotovina.
I personally think that is fair, I would let Serbia in without handing over Mladic and Karadzic, just like i wouldnt let Croatia in without handing in Gotovina, it has to be the same for both countries.
I dont belief any of this balkan "pact" rubbish saying that the EU will only let them both in at the same time, i think that is just propaganda, at best the EU is simply saying to Croatia "look we are talking to Serbia because you are being naughty and not handing over your war criminal.
In my opinion Star, Mesic is too scared to hand Gotovina over, he worries about public opinion so he and the press use the EU as a scapegoat for this cowardness. Hand him over and lets form an opinon from there.
Barba, i too worry about how much support the radicals have in Serbia, it is frightening but it is not double standards for the reasons i have stated above. Serbia has rightfully suffered and become isolated, hopefully as this isolation deteriorates so does the radical vote.
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Apr 13, 2005 22:08:58 GMT 1
Sorry i meant to put i TEXT let Serbia in from my last post instead of would!
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Post by CroatianSerbAbroad on Apr 13, 2005 22:11:08 GMT 1
Sorry i meant to put i WOULDNT let Serbia into the EU in my last post, instead it says would!. Apologies.
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Post by GS on Apr 14, 2005 3:12:09 GMT 1
Sorry i meant to put i WOULDNT let Serbia into the EU in my last post, instead it says would!. Apologies. I WOULD let Croatia into the EU with out the handing over Gotovina. Difference being Mladic and Karadzic are war criminals who along with UN and EU observers supervised the systematic slaughter innocents civillians in Gorazde and Srebrenica and other towns. THis lasted for weeks and months we all saw it on TV !!! the rounding up of civillians and parading them in front of Maldic ... get real. The Oluja Operation lasted some 36hrs under Gotovina's command. Most of the serbs that fled did so of their own accord and are now welcome back to resume their lives. Oluja was reclaiming Croatia's Sovereignity abd Territory ... where as Mladic & Karadzic where hell bent on exterminating muslims and Croats as their offensive lasted for months and months. The civillians in Gorazde and Srebrenica cant come back because they are Dead !!!! You CAN NOT .... CAN NOT !!!!! compare Mladic and Karadzic to Gotovina
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croam
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Post by croam on Apr 14, 2005 3:18:51 GMT 1
whatever Gotovina did, he did with the support and backing of the US and UN in Oluja. Just because people under him did horrible things, doesn't mean that its his fault. Its not George Bush's fault that prisoners were abused in Abu Gharaib prison (even though it probably was called for by Rumsfeld).
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Post by Old Guest on Apr 14, 2005 3:20:48 GMT 1
This article speaks alot about something you call "rubbish".
“A great success for Croatia will be the start of accession talks with the European Union in June. In that way, Croatia has a real chance of becoming a Member State by 2009, and would completely amortize the postponement of the talks which were supposed to have begun on 17 March. If the talks begin, then this will primarily be due to the efforts of Premier Sanader, who was the only person to not lose hope following the postponement and who demanded the formation of a special EU Commission to investigate the level of cooperation between Croatia and the Hague Tribunal. Sanader succeeded in obtaining this through his persistence and his great reputation within the top ranks of the European People’s Parties, whose member are in power in the majority of EU Member States. This opportunity should be taken to show that Croatia is cooperating with the Hague, even though this was not critical for the postponement of talks between Croatia and the EU. It is clear to everyone in the EU that the interests of Great Britain stands behind this, or rather one portion of its administration which is against Croatia entering into the EU independently, without the remaining republics of the former Yugoslavia, especially Serbia,” commented a high ranking diplomat in Zagreb for Nacional. This diplomat is the representative of a leading western European country, and stressed the great credit and excellent reputation of Ivo Sanader among the EU leaders.
The ultimately cold relations of the English diplomacy, in particular Foreign Minister Jack Straw and European Minister Dennis McShane, could be felt by Sanader and former Minister Žužul, who were unable to form close contacts with these diplomats as with other important western European diplomats. Dennis McShane revealed the reason for this in his recent speech before the British Upper House, in which he stated that Serbia has always been a natural ally to England, and a nation upon which Britain relies, considering it to be the leader in the western Balkans. This speech by McShane passed completely unnoticed in Croatia, being recorded only by analysts in the Foreign Affairs Ministry. However, few dared to speak openly about the speech, fearing the wrath of the Foreign Office. In as much, two things must be kept in mind. First, Premier Tony Blair is not unfond of Croatia. It was Blair who last December gave the green light for Britain to approve the start of Croatia’s talks on 17 March. This decision was made despite opposition from Straw and McShane. In order to understand such conduct, it must be known that Blair has great problems within his own government and the Labour Party. Analysts know well that Blair has no true opposition within the conservative party, but within his own party, in the form of his greatest party opponent Gordon Brown. This intolerance has been ongoing since the moment Blair became premier, while Brown and his supporters believed that he should have become party leader and premier. Brown’s supporters include Foreign Minister Straw and Dennis McShane.
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croam
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Post by croam on Apr 14, 2005 3:28:41 GMT 1
i just hope it doesn't happen like that. What does Serbia have to offer that Croatia doesn't? Croatia has unspoiled coastline and access to the Adriatic. I hope Germany steps in and helps out. f**k England for conspiring against Croatia. If the past is the past, then why play favorites to former allies? I think even if this is "the plan" that Croatia will still surpass serbia and several countries that just entered the EU. It will just delay the progress if they have to wait for serbia. They were supposed to go into EU in 2007!! Because talks were suspened for three months they have to wait two more years??? This doesn't make any sense!
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Post by Old Guest on Apr 14, 2005 3:33:42 GMT 1
i just hope it doesn't happen like that. What does Serbia have to offer that Croatia doesn't? Croatia has unspoiled coastline and access to the Adriatic. I hope Germany steps in and helps out. England for conspiring against Croatia. If the past is the past, then why play favorites to former allies? I think even if this is "the plan" that Croatia will still surpass serbia and several countries that just entered the EU. It will just delay the progress if they have to wait for serbia. They were supposed to go into EU in 2007!! Because talks were suspened for three months they have to wait two more years??? This doesn't make any sense! Well, obviously instead of us "cleaning our house", UK decided to clean our house with Serbian vacuum cleaner. Sounds familiar ? Or even if things are repeating same way, they are still "paranoia" just because someone has superior oppinion on himself (huess who) ? Personaly, I really don't care about what UK wan't or don't want ... But it is funny to listen alll this superior and arogant talks from "civilised ones" explaining "us barbarians" how to behave. It amuzes me.
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Post by Old Guest on Apr 14, 2005 3:41:10 GMT 1
They were supposed to go into EU in 2007!! Because talks were suspened for three months they have to wait two more years??? This doesn't make any sense! ;D google a little and see who is taking EU's chair after Luxembourg and when ... And math will fit.
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croam
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Post by croam on Apr 14, 2005 3:53:38 GMT 1
barba why dont you just tell me?
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croam
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Post by croam on Apr 14, 2005 3:56:40 GMT 1
yeah no matter what things have only one way to go for croatia(up) and those who have been living fat only have one way to go. The whole world is shifting right now...politically speaking...it will be interesting to see how the chips fall in the next fifty years. I think the is going to hit the fan...Croatia will come out on top. I can feel it when I'm over there....Croatia has something that other places don't.
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