Serbia one step closer to EU

[barba Jere]

yes politicians are just commoners, especially in UK.


Well then explane WHY is UK leading country in slowing down Croatian acession to EU.

Explane McShanes statement in the House of Commons that Serbia is natural ally to UK.

[Old Guest]

Where do you see "cospiracy" ? You speak like somebody here is requestioning that "God does exsist" ... if UK's politics get mentioned ... You are free to believe in your God, but alow others to do something more then to wait for "better life in ethernity" ...

EU countries vote for negotiations ... they vote different, some for, some against (I guess, with reasons) and - negotiations get delayed without any conclusion or valid "political" measure for starting them at some/any time ....

Simple, all of EU countries doesn't have unique oppinon on something which for UK is "clear watter". But in case of Serbia when it comes to UK, this same watter is less "clear". Known from before, and will never change in UK - Croatia "relations".

There is NO "conspiracy" !!!!!

All political decisions made by those who support Croatia and those who doesn't (and they are openly led by UK) has political value, and clear interests.

Mixing France and Germany in this "Croatia delay" games is rediculous.

Croatia is anyway so small, and I don't know why would UK defend itself (or feel ashamed) from fact that it is acting on "collonial principles" inside EU, same as USA is acting on global level ... It "passed" before, it is "passing now" ... USA is strong enough, and everybody will "shut up" when big country in confronting small country in name of third country ... No conspiracy, politics and interests.

I bet average person on the street in UK had romantic picture of Maharaja and his beutiful daughters infront of his eyes, while UK was squeezing India ...

And nobody was asking themselves "why we live so good, and we don't manufacture anything significant ?" (people look in closers and find something "made in" UK, you can't live without and is high technology).

So, lets not play "dumb and dumber". Croatia Serb is expert in war criminal jurisdiction, but when it comes to "real politics" - keep it away from me, I live great in UK, same as other few millions, who are so polite and relaxed ...

Well, we are not relaxed just because you are so relaxed, and more relaxed you get, more f***ed it will get for us. Simple.

[Old Guest]

Or to make it more clear ...

We (Croatia) see ourselves in better position both strategicaly and economicaly if we enter EU without "West Balcans" as poltical balast, and together with rest Midle European countries aproach markets on the East, when at same time other countries from region (Italy and Austria) will transfer accumulated on the west of EU ....

This looks better in eyes of average Croatian then becoming "economical power" of West Balcans, serve as jumpboard for west EU countries to enter "West Balkans" markets, and at same time to worry about it's economy - playing "watchdog". All just because Serbia has bigger strategic value for UK and USA, and without Croatia - Serbia stays economicaly "unconected" even in EU.

We don't feel obligation to "support" Serbia in any way, and are just interested in our own benefits which will be shared with countries which are economicaly strong and stable, and share obvious interests with us.

Croatia is last country on this plant which should have any moral obligation to support Serbia in any economical aspect, and/pr become hosstage of it's strategic importance for UK and USA.

I believe this was enough simple and clear.

[CroatianSerbAbroad]

Old Guest i understand what you are saying and it would appear that some of my comments are being somewhat mis-understood.

I am absolutely in agreement that Croatia should enter the EU without any balast coming from Serbia or any other country for that matter. I agree that the UK position maybe strategic in that they wish to bulk the EU entrants together from the balkan region.

My comment is that this is not eminating from any deep down dislike or hatred of Croatia, the average person aside (more and more UK people are visiting Croatia), it may be the case that the foreign office and other political people, like the guy mentioned in earlier posts talk about the traditional ally of Serbia but you should not punish or stereotype UK people because of this.

Of course the UK has another agenda, nobody will despute this, you are right the UK basically does not manufacture really anything anymore. But more and more production and engineering is going to the far east because it is alot cheaper, the UK is becoming a "services" industry.

If Croatia can gain strong support from Germany, France et cetera then i am sure a deal can be done behind the scenes to ensure that the UK position is changed. As we all know, Germany offered the UK concessions on the Maastricht Treaty for the original recognition of Croatia, a deal can be done again. Croatia maybe able to rally enough support in the EU to isolate the UK position, that maybe another way forward.

I have only ever tried to state that you should not blame the people for the actions of the politicians for countries like Croatia, where the populations is ignorant of what is going on.

The other aspects is linking the current UK position to WWII, i recently read the comment from an earlier post about the Serbian royalty in the UK, they recently joked in the UK when he appeared at Prince Charles wedding that had they not had written down who he was they would never have known.

Anyway, can he even speak Serbian?, he is obviously living very comfortably whilst his people suffer. I just dont believe the UK is influenced by the WWII factor, i believe it is actually part of a bigger picture.

[Old Guest]

And give you one more information, so this "fights" can stop in way they started to develop ... I wasn't planing to share this info with this forum, but ...what the hell ...

It is "common knowledge" that Croatia is small fu***ed country, with corruption etc. But story has "two sides", and it has breakdown point about year go ...

So, when last group of countries was aproaching EU, Croatia was "next in row" and "good girl" because it was just "small peanut" some EU countries like, and USA together with UK didn't minded, because anyway "stability comes first", and Croatia is "naturaly" connected with Serbis, and everybody in the end will - benfit ...

But then interesting thing come out - in meantime, to prevent EU banks sucking profit's from Croatias marked, big Croatian companies (and corporation) was "playing dead" investing money all around region - buying basic "frozen food resources", "energetic and telecomunications resources", "farmaceutic industry" (as you see - strategic resources) all around region - mostly in Serbia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Slovakia and Poland ... And to insure investment, and hide it from "EU birocrats eyes) they backed it up buying part of milk and chocolate industry in Switzerland and Austria, which true banks become "surface owners" ....

Then when some of this countries (Poland and Slovakia) entered EU - birocrats got frozen, because nobody expected such thing. "Planing market after Western Balcans integrate" was obviously impossible "from the scratch" like they planed ... And then UK and rest (which had different plans for West Balkans, any tought economy issues and markets will come latter), started to freak out - one seeing this as "German plot", other as "Germany and Italy ploting in background, and plays fights only on surface" .... And then, because it was "rush", Gotovina came as best "temporary" excuse, because there was no time for better one ... And "economy" was't good enough argument (obviously why) ....

Rest is "cosmetics" used for political fights, but it is obvious what stays in background. I see that even those who back up UK's politics toward Croatia can't believe that Croatia is "of any significance" ... Well, exactly on this Croatia was counting, and exactly this is problem now ...

So, Croatia will not "die" without EU, and we all know this ... only goverment can loose popularity, and loose elections ... Things can be delayed, in way for money to return in Croatia ... But I don't think so.

As long as during Croatian companies hire 75 000 people in Poland and even more in Serbia and Bosnia ... I don't think EU will like to deal with this.

So, put this on one side, and Gotovina on other ... and judge.

[irac]

Can we all get this straight, Croatia is a far far pooorer country than any of those that have just entered the EU, it is on a level with Romania, a little above Bulgaria and a long way ahead of Ukraine and Turkey (though Turkey's industry is growing fast). Leaving aside the returnee problems, lack of clarity regarding property owneership, the crime and coprruption and people trafficking, it has areas that were devastated by the war and socially need ot be rebuilt before any notion of being the equal of the czech Republic or Hungary can come into the light.

This week the nod was given to consider talks with Romania and Bulgaria, but the earliest, remember the EARLIEST they will enter, and this was said by the EU, is 2012!!! HDZ won the last election by telling blatant lies about Croatia's position and ability to enter the EU. They placed TV ads with "leaders" of EU parties, even our own gangster Bertie Ahern, and a number of opposition party members of Germany et al, oh, and that other white as snow scum Berlusconi, and editted comments to make it look as if the only way Croatia would enter the EU is by electing them, they even said 2007, or 2008 at the latest, when in every press release the EU said it would be AT LEAST 2009.

Croatia can survive, for a while, without the EU. They can even benefit, short term, from not joining, but when they finally "discover" Gotovina out in Otok Sinj, then they will no longer have an excuse and have to start making progress in the country.

[Old Guest]

Yep, Croatia is poore, no doubt ... a lot of money is "outside country", thanks to Croatian tycoons ... They are completly intergrated in EU, don't bother with "quotas" and don't support Croatia entering EU (probably you tought my post had intention to say that Croatia is - "ritch", but it didn't) ...

www.euractiv.com/Article?tcmuri=tcm:29-129605-16&type=LinksDossier

(very "official" link) ... see about "dates" mentioned before, and even now ...


Well, should Croatia fall down or not, or will it survive with or without joining EU is risk each Croatian citizen will take on him/herself after diciding about this using available democratic institution (by voting on referendum). They was taking much bigger risks then this, and they survived.

Honestly, before I sow this forum I was 100 percent for Croatia joining EU (just because I tought it is path to avoid hate, prejudices and national "complexes of superiority", which I tought was - Balkans related) ... But not any more.

Personaly, after surviving war, I think all this crises can be survived only by "repuzling" politics in coutry, and not by joining EU. And I honestly don't think that all this "arogant Croato haters" can compare as serious treat to Croatia with Serb soldiers from last war ...

I really and honnestly newer believed that so many people have so arogant view over any other nation, believing they are authorities just because they are full of hate, prejudices and frustrations.

Once I shared country with people who hated me just because I am Croat (like it is some sort of - defect), and that was enough for my lifetime.

[Guest]

irac said:

.... but when they finally "discover" Gotovina out in Otok Sinj, then they will no longer have an excuse and have to start making progress in the country.

Call USA embassy, give them location and earn some money ... But somehow, I think you would not do it ... Feel superior even to them ?

[Old Guest]

Oooop, last post was mine ... It was mistake, and not attempt to give myself support under odiffernt nickname.

[croam]

yeah sure Old Guest...we're on to you man...we know you have different aliases. ;D

[irac]

I think you're losing it oldguest, with your many aliases what you patently fail to understand is humour! Try a tansplant and you'll find life a lot easier!!! What is hilarious is that gotovina is communicating through his lawyer, his family's assets are intact and he's stil seen as a pure white hero, and nobody knows where he is?? I think those who post here extoling his virtues and apologising for the government's mishandling of the case should ask themselves, in Ireland, where there actually were people "fighting" for freedom, the posters and ads for any of the "heroes" would be torn down by the authorities within 24 hours of them being put up. Only in lawless places would there be allowed such retarded iconography (the gable ends of houses in Belfast). The EU are scared off by more than a reformed criminal renegade "general".

[Old Guest]

Call me retarded ... but I can recognize humor when I see it ... Now you are even world class joker, but nobody can't recognize it?

[Old Guest]

irac said:

.... in Ireland, where there actually were people "fighting" for freedom, the posters and ads for any of the "heroes" would be torn down by the authorities within 24 hours of them being put up. Only in lawless places would there be allowed such retarded iconography (the gable ends of houses in Belfast). The EU are scared off by more than a reformed criminal renegade "general".

Okay ... I got this one ... hahahahaha .... bravo Phytons are nothing for you man.

;D ;D ;D ;D

[Ribaric]

I'd not previously drawn those parallels irac but I see your point. It would be interesting to know the real prime-movers behind all these machinations but I doubt I'll live that long. There might be a book in it, who would buy it though?

Another parallel, it's curious the way Brits view Ronny Biggs. Even the Krays are often referred to in glowing "they woz good boys" terms. Perhaps Gotovina's popularity is not so difficult to imagine.

[irac]

The Krays,I think, are now seen as no more frightening than the Mitchell brothers, I agree 100% Ribaric, they are more than tolerated. Howver, if you were spinning along the M25 and a large advertising poster stood glaring at you with it's giant nose (oh wait, that's just gotovina) and with "Our Heroes" and Reggie and Ronnie on it, do you think the Met would allow it to stand more than a few hours? I just couldn't see it. The whole promotion of a criminal, reformed before the war, into an icon of national struggle is another sympton of the massive malaise dragging Croatia into the pit of despair (racism, hooliganism unchecked, unemployment, deliberate underdevelopment, huge corruption from top down etc etc).