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Post by Three Lions on Feb 16, 2005 7:15:09 GMT 1
you still wouldn't win....always fighting....there's only 4 million of you ....as I said hardly using your brains like the Swiss or the Slovenes....your already being controlled by outside big economic interests.....its just a few corrupt politicians ripping you off .... keeping your people in the gutter ... if you want to stay poor not being able to afford proper clothes and proper heating for your houses then carry on being stupid....unusal for a Croatian....normally its hust a problem of being arrogant and not listening....
fight me....I'd take all of you on...beleive me and then I'd move on to your neighbours...are you the most arrogant people on the planet?
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Post by Three Lion cubs on Feb 16, 2005 7:27:30 GMT 1
in 1941 some Croats were fighting for the Nazis and some were fighting for Tito, technically fighting each other....a lot were getting killed....the EU has its origins in preventing war, France and Germany didn't want to fight anymore.....
I know the answer .... stay out of the EU, remain in the dark ages and have a fight with Serbia.
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Post by Ribaric on Feb 16, 2005 12:02:20 GMT 1
Let's turn our heads back to the future, all this who-did-what-to-whom can't be a reason to decide YES or NO to the basic question (surely it can't?).
There's been a number of postings, some logical and well argued, putting the case FOR and AGAINST. I was wondering if the current democratically elected government was successful because the advocated joining the EU, What do we think?
Q1. Would they still have won had they advocated NOT joining the EU?
Q2. They did advocate joining, so does the population have any choice about it now?
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Post by Culchie on Feb 16, 2005 12:15:37 GMT 1
Hi Ribaric,
I'm sure, should accession talks proceed and conclude successfully with a date of entry set, that a referendum will be put to the Croatian people to decide if they wish to join or not.
It's getting tedious watching every thread fall into an insulting argument, not reasoned debate or discussion, but utter disrespect and contempt for different, but equally valid, points of view.
Normally it's the 'men in black' or women, who don't register themselves onto the board.
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Post by EMIZ on Feb 16, 2005 13:52:55 GMT 1
I see another thread has been ruined and is heading in the usual direction.
Croats against the world!
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Post by Old Guest on Feb 16, 2005 17:02:57 GMT 1
I see another thread has been ruined and is heading in the usual direction. Croats against the world! Well. then lets turn it back ... For Ribaric. Important to mention on this subject is that from it's very begginings, idea of democracy in Croatia was connected with EU (more as synonim for "better future outside Yugoslavia"). Even during late som, it was interesting to see that "idea of united Europe" finded it ways to be presented in positive tones in medias. So, first elections in Croatia was also defined with this same will (never clearly defined ... but all the time - exsisting) of people to find "closest path" to EU. They tought if they completly abandon any connection with comunist party, or any element which participated in late sociaistic Croatia - they will become acceptable for EU. And this is why nationalists (in metter of fact all ex comunists, but declared as - nationalistic disidents) wonn elections so easy (also using growing fear from at that time clearly dangerous Miloshevic). Nationalists was waving with new "red flag" infront voters eyes - and it was called - EU / Croatian future in the west. So, this same party now runs goverment, again transformed in retorics. So, clear answer is - nationalists and conservatives would never winn elections so easy in both cases if they wasn't defining EU as final goal. No, metter how political platform for "achieving this goal" was just opposite from "goal itself". Other political forces wasn't using EU such loud as nationalists. They tried once, but that example showed that when ex. comunists (non-disident) do their best to lie about honnest will to bring country closer to EU - even they don't believe in what they speak. I find interesting fact that nationalistic and conservative rethorics packed in "pro EU" rethorics in Croatia somehow sucessfully convice people in it's - "honnesty". But, in other hand, even EU showed this same nationalist and conservatives more acceptable then the others. But maybe this is what is going to change now. God knows. We will see soon.
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Post by Old Guest on Feb 16, 2005 17:10:20 GMT 1
Well. then lets turn it back ... For Ribaric. If you like to hear more ... say. It is complicated but interesting subject ...
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Post by pacificstar on Feb 16, 2005 17:23:59 GMT 1
Culchie,
What kind of profession do you have? Is the technology wave still strong in Ireland? Country Mayo, huh? I would love to visit!
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Post by Culchie on Feb 16, 2005 17:57:05 GMT 1
Country Mayo, huh? I would love to visit! Hmmm, I dunno, are you as good looking as your picture?
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Post by Loveu2 on Feb 16, 2005 19:57:56 GMT 1
.......because Switzerland is in a different league to Croatia, and the EU wants a nice little new economic market with a nice long coastline with holiday apartments to rent out. When has Croatia been truely independent anyway? Soon you won't be able to move in your country without tripping over a German/Italian/Austrian etc tourist. You talk as if you want to live back in an independent Yugoslavia fighting against the Soviet Union. May be you want to wear blue overalls and pretend its the 1930's. Do you drive a Zastava? That is not what they said. That is what you are saying because we don't agree with you and the EU. As soon as croatians don't agree on something that you brits think is right, we then become fasict, nationalists and you bring up the past which has nothing to do with EU. We could bring up lots of nasty things the English did to Ireland, Scotland, hell the WORLD. We should have the choice to be in the EU not bullied into it or threats made of joining the EU hanging in the balance till we come up with Gotovina. It should be Croatians choice not English, Irish, Whoever else wants to put there 2 cents into the pot. Our Choice. Croatia's CHOICE! And to Sue, I am sorry for your loss of loved ones!
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Post by Ribaric on Feb 16, 2005 20:45:22 GMT 1
Hej Stari gost,
Thanks for your post, I've been working too much this week in London and have no time for political debate. I'm headed back to Cakovec tomorrow but I have no internet access there yet. I'll think hard about what you've said but, if you are right, then politicians are even more cynical than I thought. I am beginning to understand EMIZ more and more each day.
I didn't know about the referendum EMIZ, I thought it was only Blair who gave himself a headache like that. It does beg another question, will it ever happen? What will the result be? We could have some fun with trying to guess the question. like.....
Vote "DA" if you agree to surrender the proud national identity of our forefathers to the European criminals who seek to take your birthright and ravage the motherland until it is nothing but a smoking ruin.
Vote "NE" if you wish to remain upstanding self determined folk who wish to stride forward, arm-in-arm to a bright, properous and independent future.
That'll do it.
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Post by Three Lions on Feb 16, 2005 22:39:22 GMT 1
EurActiv.com says "in January 2004 public support for the EU membership still stood at 70%".
Gerhard Shroeder said having Croatia in the EU will have a stabilising effect on the entire Balkans region.
Bulgaria and Romania will get in before you.
What do you want? You can never just shut the past out, its how you learn to tackle the future.
...arm in arm...crammed in the back of a Zastava, a bottle of rajki...singing a nationalistic song....oh and don't forget the rocket launchers and AK47's
I'll say no more, I agree its your choice, but the war IS over...bye bye old party members, don't forget to work the land in the morning
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Post by EMIZ on Feb 16, 2005 23:45:47 GMT 1
There was no official referendum Pete, but the national rag, morning or evening news.
They stated that support for the EU was at about 48%, I am sure it is much higher, but that is what they said.
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Post by Border Patrol on Feb 17, 2005 0:45:33 GMT 1
EurActiv.com says "in January 2004 public support for the EU membership still stood at 70%". Gerhard Shroeder said having Croatia in the EU will have a stabilising effect on the entire Balkans region. Bulgaria and Romania will get in before you. What do you want? You can never just shut the past out, its how you learn to tackle the future. ...arm in arm...crammed in the back of a Zastava, a bottle of rajki...singing a nationalistic song....oh and don't forget the rocket launchers and AK47's I'll say no more, I agree its your choice, but the war IS over...bye bye old party members, don't forget to work the land in the morning Hmm. It’s interesting how Anglo-Saxon meddler bends the facts when it doesn’t fit his agenda. EurActiv.com: “According to recent opinion polls, just under 50% of Croatians back the country's entry into the EU. In January 2004, public support for EU membership still stood at 70%.” So support fell more than 20% in less than one year. Now why did you omit first part of the sentence (under 50%) and quoted only the second part (70%). And what’s your problem with AK-47? Is it that you got it showed up your ass after the WW2, when you wanted to reclaim back your colonies?
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Post by My 2 cents on Feb 17, 2005 0:52:11 GMT 1
Ribaric , i vote NE!
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